1918 DWM 2 Proofs ??

Erl S. · 10-13-2004, 07:52 PM

I have a 1918 DWM artillery Luger that appears to be all original and all matching. It only has two proof marks on the right side of the receiver. All the others that I have seen in pics have 4. Any idea why this one only has two?

(img)http://diaf.pair.com/kayt/artilleryl.jpg(/img)

Erl S. · 10-13-2004, 07:55 PM

Didn't get the pic on first try. (...because you used parentheses instead of hard brackets around the 'img' '/img' tags... your second try worked just fine ...Admin-JS)

Dwight Gruber · 10-13-2004, 09:57 PM

Erl,

The left "proof" is actually and inspector's stamp, certifying that the receiver has been hardened. It is the first stamp applied to the receiver. The date was stamped at the same time as this stamp.

The right stamp, a "heraldic eagle", is actually the firing proof, certifying that the gun has successfully passed firing two overpressure rounds. It is part of a set of three proof stamps, the second is visible on the barrel in this photograph and the third is found on the left side of the breechblock.

Of the two stamps which are missing, the stamp in the second position would certify inspection after the pistol's assembly, and the last stamp would certify acceptance after the pistol's shooting-in (it would have been stamped -after- the firing proof).

1918 was the last year that Lugers were manufactured for the Imperial Army. By the example of your pistol, Army inspectors were cutting corners to certify these guns for use--it is noteworthy that the two stamps which -did- make it onto this gun certify actual safety-oriented inspections.

It would be useful to know this Luger's serial number and letter suffix. to see if itis possible to determine how close this gun is to the ehd of production.

--Dwight

Erl S. · 10-13-2004, 10:05 PM

THANKS DWIGHT

SERIAL NUMBER (68xx L)

ERL

Dwight Gruber · 10-13-2004, 10:45 PM

Erl,

It would be very unusual if your LP-08 serial# sufix is l. According to Still (Imperial Lugers) LP-08s were not reported past the e block, and there were no 1918 Lugers reported in the l block.

Take a look at this picture, on the right is an l suffix and on the left is b. They are extremely difficult to tell apart by casual observation, it may take a magnifying glass (I know this for a fact, hereby hangs a tale...for another time).

Regardless of this, 1918 DWM were produced into the s suffix block, so the lapse of inspection cannot be accounted for by proximity to the end of the production run.

--Dwight

Erl S. · 10-13-2004, 11:02 PM

Dwight

Just checked the serial # again and looks just like the left one above (b)
Thanks for the help. I will have to change my records.

As far as I can tell, I am the first purchaser of this luger. I bought it from the family who's grandfather was in the army during WW I and told the family he won it it a poker game after the war. He died in 1988 and the pistol and holster were stored untill I bought it. Not mint but very nice.

Dwight Gruber · 10-13-2004, 11:50 PM

Erl,

Pistol -and- holster, eh? You've tantalized us with the picture of the receiver, how about pictures of the whole rig? Also, there are people here who would like to know the maker of the holster, and any marks which it might bear.

More photos, more!

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-14-2004, 08:21 AM

And... did the holster come attached to a shoulder stock? Please tell us all about your Artillery...

Erl S. · 10-14-2004, 09:20 AM

All,
first just got the holster,no stock. I talked to family members and if there was one it was lost years ago. I made sure they had my phone # just in case. Holster is very solid, dated 1916. pics included. I only have a couple pics and may send some close ups if anyone has some specifics. Bluing is probably 85% to 90% on everything except the grip straps which are probably 30%. no rust or corrosion anywhere inside and out. Numbers match inside and out. Only problem with the pistol is the hold open is worn and sometimes will slip. I don't want to change it as it is numbered to the gun. Also sometime long ago someone thought it would be cool to put an ivory base on the magazine !! Bore is bright with good rifling. Took it to the range the other day, did about 20 rounds. This pistol made me look good.

10-13-2004, 07:52 PM	#1
Erl S. User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 DWM 2 Proofs ?? I have a 1918 DWM artillery Luger that appears to be all original and all matching. It only has two proof marks on the right side of the receiver. All the others that I have seen in pics have 4. Any idea why this one only has two? (img)http://diaf.pair.com/kayt/artilleryl.jpg(/img)

10-14-2004, 08:21 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	And... did the holster come attached to a shoulder stock? Please tell us all about your Artillery... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-13-2004, 07:55 PM	#2
Erl S. User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Didn't get the pic on first try. (...because you used parentheses instead of hard brackets around the 'img' '/img' tags... your second try worked just fine ...Admin-JS)

10-13-2004, 09:57 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Erl, The left "proof" is actually and inspector's stamp, certifying that the receiver has been hardened. It is the first stamp applied to the receiver. The date was stamped at the same time as this stamp. The right stamp, a "heraldic eagle", is actually the firing proof, certifying that the gun has successfully passed firing two overpressure rounds. It is part of a set of three proof stamps, the second is visible on the barrel in this photograph and the third is found on the left side of the breechblock. Of the two stamps which are missing, the stamp in the second position would certify inspection after the pistol's assembly, and the last stamp would certify acceptance after the pistol's shooting-in (it would have been stamped -after- the firing proof). 1918 was the last year that Lugers were manufactured for the Imperial Army. By the example of your pistol, Army inspectors were cutting corners to certify these guns for use--it is noteworthy that the two stamps which -did- make it onto this gun certify actual safety-oriented inspections. It would be useful to know this Luger's serial number and letter suffix. to see if itis possible to determine how close this gun is to the ehd of production. --Dwight

10-13-2004, 10:05 PM	#4
Erl S. User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	THANKS DWIGHT SERIAL NUMBER (68xx L) ERL

10-13-2004, 10:45 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Erl, It would be very unusual if your LP-08 serial# sufix is l. According to Still (Imperial Lugers) LP-08s were not reported past the e block, and there were no 1918 Lugers reported in the l block. Take a look at this picture, on the right is an l suffix and on the left is b. They are extremely difficult to tell apart by casual observation, it may take a magnifying glass (I know this for a fact, hereby hangs a tale...for another time). Regardless of this, 1918 DWM were produced into the s suffix block, so the lapse of inspection cannot be accounted for by proximity to the end of the production run. --Dwight

10-13-2004, 11:02 PM	#6
Erl S. User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight Just checked the serial # again and looks just like the left one above (b) Thanks for the help. I will have to change my records. As far as I can tell, I am the first purchaser of this luger. I bought it from the family who's grandfather was in the army during WW I and told the family he won it it a poker game after the war. He died in 1988 and the pistol and holster were stored untill I bought it. Not mint but very nice.

10-13-2004, 11:50 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Erl, Pistol -and- holster, eh? You've tantalized us with the picture of the receiver, how about pictures of the whole rig? Also, there are people here who would like to know the maker of the holster, and any marks which it might bear. More photos, more! --Dwight

10-14-2004, 09:20 AM	#9
Erl S. User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All, first just got the holster,no stock. I talked to family members and if there was one it was lost years ago. I made sure they had my phone # just in case. Holster is very solid, dated 1916. pics included. I only have a couple pics and may send some close ups if anyone has some specifics. Bluing is probably 85% to 90% on everything except the grip straps which are probably 30%. no rust or corrosion anywhere inside and out. Numbers match inside and out. Only problem with the pistol is the hold open is worn and sometimes will slip. I don't want to change it as it is numbered to the gun. Also sometime long ago someone thought it would be cool to put an ivory base on the magazine !! Bore is bright with good rifling. Took it to the range the other day, did about 20 rounds. This pistol made me look good.