The best WWI soldier portrait w/ LP08

mauro · 06-21-2003, 09:14 AM

Hello friends,
As you know I am a fan of LP08. With my friend collector Paolo, I have recently bought this very beautiful portrait. The best one I have ever seen. Moreover it is very interesting because the soldier is wearing three magazine pouches. In the main page of my site there is a link for seeing this interesting picture.
Please let me know your opinion.
Ciao

Roadkill · 06-21-2003, 09:04 PM

Mauro,
been studying the great photo, there are (to my limited perspective) some interesting parts. He is a senior NCO or officer, I can't make out the rank on his overcoat but the age and demeanor give him an authoritative presence. His overcoat is well worn but the holster and magazine pouches appear new. There is a combination of spontainety
in that he wasn't going to put down his cigar but the background drop shows it is a posed photo. But he is standing on dirt. So its an outside studio. His boots are well worn field boots but he has a new pair of hobnailed ones in his pack. His gear is worn so that the the pack can be taken off quickly with the pistol and canteen remaining. His holster and magazines are to the front of his body so that when he sits they are in his lap. My guess is that he is an Artillery Company Commander or First Sergeant (Spiess), the column stopped in a village, he got off the wagon, still wearing his pack, gun, and smoking a cigar, walked over to a photo studion set up on the road, had his photo done, paid the dude who then mailed it home for him. The Imperial army was not known to foster independent thinking, the uniforms and equipment were consistent. He wears three magazine pouches cause he can. Nor does he seem to be one to be told what he can or can't wear.

rk

Ron Wood · 06-21-2003, 09:26 PM

Roadkill,
I think your observations are pretty much on. The ball topped helmet definitely makes him Artillery, and I agree he is a senior NCO or officer. I am not so sure that all of the gear is not a prop for the photo. His uniform, helmet and boots look worn, but all of the gear is brand new. I think the photo studio set up on the road was for sending photos back home, so a set of nice clean equipment was available for posing. As for telling him what he could or could not wear, I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. Reminds me of a couple of my 1st Sergeants.

Mauro,
Would you like a copy of that photo re-touched to remove some of the long scratches?

George Anderson · 06-21-2003, 09:33 PM

He is certainly not an officer and also probably not an NCO his collar shows no litzen. He's wearing an enlisted foot soldier belt buckle so he is probably not an NCO. I am not sure but think that most Artillery NCO's might have been mounted which means that early in the war they would have worn a mounted troops open buckle. Further, his boots indicate he's a ground slogger. This photo was taken in 1914 or 1915 in all liklihood.

It appears that there is a buckle on the holster strap, this is interesting. What do you all see, is it a buckle?

Ron Wood · 06-21-2003, 09:50 PM

George,
Don't think it is a buckle on the holster strap. I think it is just the stud that secures the strap. To me it looks just like the stud on the stock iron "boot". Since the gear is so new looking, all the metal parts are particularly shiny. The belt and buckle could also just be part of the "props". Good call on the collar litzen.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-21-2003, 10:08 PM

Mauro, Truely an amazing photo. I would like to analize some parts of it but cannot download it to do so. Is it possible for you to Email me the photo so that I can enlarge it? I would like to take a closer look at the Artillery strap. Thanks my Friend, I am still enjoying your wonderful book! Jerry Burney

Ron Wood · 06-21-2003, 10:25 PM

Here are a couple of closeups.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-21-2003, 11:03 PM

Thanks Ron! Jerry Burney

mauro · 06-22-2003, 06:28 PM

Ron,
I appreciate if you send me a re-touched picture.

Thank you.
Mauro

John Sabato · 06-23-2003, 11:35 AM

Through some real digital photographic magic courtesy of Paint Shop Pro software, I have been able to adjust this photo and provide an enlargement of the LP-08 rig and belt worn by the soldier in Mauro's photo.

What a neat photo!

Mauro, can you email me a high-resolution scan of this photo?

John Sabato · 06-23-2003, 05:21 PM

I agree that this guy is neither an NCO or an Officer... based on the fact that he is apparently wearing no rank insignia...

He is probably just a crewman on a field piece or a Machinegun.

Here is a complete version of Mauro's photo..Click this image to see it full size...

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/MaurosBestPhoto06232003.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/MaurosBestPhoto06232003.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

mauro · 06-23-2003, 05:35 PM

John and Ron,
thank you for the improved picture you posted for me.
And thank you to all friends for parteciping to this topic.
I am very happy that this picture has been appreciated. This is a big stimulus for searching new historical documents and to share them with you.
Ciao

Ron Wood · 06-23-2003, 08:50 PM

Here is a retouched and enhanced version of the photo that I sent to Mauro and am keeping for my archives. John you might want to work your resize magic on this one if it is too big for some browsers or ISPs. (DONE- JS)
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/LP08Photo.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/LP08Photo.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Strider · 06-24-2003, 02:23 PM

Very neat photo. One question though, any idea what the number 1840 represents? Certainly not a date.

John Sabato · 06-24-2003, 03:18 PM

My guess is it would be the negative number for the portrait photographer so he could marry up the photo with the soldier after being processed. I might also speculate that it might have been the last 4 digits of his serial number used for that purpose...

Big Norm · 06-25-2003, 12:50 PM

More likely the negative number since no family member would know his military serial number if he didn't come back.

I keep looking at these old photos and thinking 'if only pictures could talk'. What happened to this guy? Who was he? What was he going through when this picture was taken? Have modern family members forgotten him? And so on and so on. He may have been the enemy, but he was still human.

After reading so much about WWI, I have often thought that there was so much romanticism during this bloody period. Movie makers have missed so much. Like the French socialite who shot a French newspaper publisher before the war began because she was anti war and he was pro war. Or the German general on the Eastern front who was very aggresive and successful but was hated by the other German officers because he was clean shaven and smart. This Gerneral got himself out of position because he advanced too far. But, later, the German staff realized that he was in perfect position to destroy one of the two Russian armies moving in on Germany. And later, after the Russian General committed suicide because of his horrendous defeat, the German army allowed the Russian generals widow to search for and reclaim his body for proper burial. There are lots of untold stories that sound Hollywood but are true.
Big Norm

06-21-2003, 09:14 AM	#1
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	The best WWI soldier portrait w/ LP08 Hello friends, As you know I am a fan of LP08. With my friend collector Paolo, I have recently bought this very beautiful portrait. The best one I have ever seen. Moreover it is very interesting because the soldier is wearing three magazine pouches. In the main page of my site there is a link for seeing this interesting picture. Please let me know your opinion. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-21-2003, 09:26 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Roadkill, I think your observations are pretty much on. The ball topped helmet definitely makes him Artillery, and I agree he is a senior NCO or officer. I am not so sure that all of the gear is not a prop for the photo. His uniform, helmet and boots look worn, but all of the gear is brand new. I think the photo studio set up on the road was for sending photos back home, so a set of nice clean equipment was available for posing. As for telling him what he could or could not wear, I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. Reminds me of a couple of my 1st Sergeants. Mauro, Would you like a copy of that photo re-touched to remove some of the long scratches? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-21-2003, 09:50 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	George, Don't think it is a buckle on the holster strap. I think it is just the stud that secures the strap. To me it looks just like the stud on the stock iron "boot". Since the gear is so new looking, all the metal parts are particularly shiny. The belt and buckle could also just be part of the "props". Good call on the collar litzen. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-21-2003, 10:08 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,868 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Mauro, Truely an amazing photo. I would like to analize some parts of it but cannot download it to do so. Is it possible for you to Email me the photo so that I can enlarge it? I would like to take a closer look at the Artillery strap. Thanks my Friend, I am still enjoying your wonderful book! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-21-2003, 10:25 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Here are a couple of closeups. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-21-2003, 09:04 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Mauro, been studying the great photo, there are (to my limited perspective) some interesting parts. He is a senior NCO or officer, I can't make out the rank on his overcoat but the age and demeanor give him an authoritative presence. His overcoat is well worn but the holster and magazine pouches appear new. There is a combination of spontainety in that he wasn't going to put down his cigar but the background drop shows it is a posed photo. But he is standing on dirt. So its an outside studio. His boots are well worn field boots but he has a new pair of hobnailed ones in his pack. His gear is worn so that the the pack can be taken off quickly with the pistol and canteen remaining. His holster and magazines are to the front of his body so that when he sits they are in his lap. My guess is that he is an Artillery Company Commander or First Sergeant (Spiess), the column stopped in a village, he got off the wagon, still wearing his pack, gun, and smoking a cigar, walked over to a photo studion set up on the road, had his photo done, paid the dude who then mailed it home for him. The Imperial army was not known to foster independent thinking, the uniforms and equipment were consistent. He wears three magazine pouches cause he can. Nor does he seem to be one to be told what he can or can't wear. rk

06-21-2003, 09:33 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	He is certainly not an officer and also probably not an NCO his collar shows no litzen. He's wearing an enlisted foot soldier belt buckle so he is probably not an NCO. I am not sure but think that most Artillery NCO's might have been mounted which means that early in the war they would have worn a mounted troops open buckle. Further, his boots indicate he's a ground slogger. This photo was taken in 1914 or 1915 in all liklihood. It appears that there is a buckle on the holster strap, this is interesting. What do you all see, is it a buckle?

06-21-2003, 11:03 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,868 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Thanks Ron! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-22-2003, 06:28 PM	#9
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Ron, I appreciate if you send me a re-touched picture. Thank you. Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-23-2003, 11:35 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Through some real digital photographic magic courtesy of Paint Shop Pro software, I have been able to adjust this photo and provide an enlargement of the LP-08 rig and belt worn by the soldier in Mauro's photo. What a neat photo! Mauro, can you email me a high-resolution scan of this photo? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-23-2003, 05:21 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I agree that this guy is neither an NCO or an Officer... based on the fact that he is apparently wearing no rank insignia... He is probably just a crewman on a field piece or a Machinegun. Here is a complete version of Mauro's photo..Click this image to see it full size... <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/MaurosBestPhoto06232003.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/MaurosBestPhoto06232003.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-23-2003, 05:35 PM	#12
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	John and Ron, thank you for the improved picture you posted for me. And thank you to all friends for parteciping to this topic. I am very happy that this picture has been appreciated. This is a big stimulus for searching new historical documents and to share them with you. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-23-2003, 08:50 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Here is a retouched and enhanced version of the photo that I sent to Mauro and am keeping for my archives. John you might want to work your resize magic on this one if it is too big for some browsers or ISPs. (DONE- JS) <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/LP08Photo.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/LP08Photo.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-24-2003, 02:23 PM	#14
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very neat photo. One question though, any idea what the number 1840 represents? Certainly not a date. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

06-24-2003, 03:18 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	My guess is it would be the negative number for the portrait photographer so he could marry up the photo with the soldier after being processed. I might also speculate that it might have been the last 4 digits of his serial number used for that purpose... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-25-2003, 12:50 PM	#16
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	More likely the negative number since no family member would know his military serial number if he didn't come back. I keep looking at these old photos and thinking 'if only pictures could talk'. What happened to this guy? Who was he? What was he going through when this picture was taken? Have modern family members forgotten him? And so on and so on. He may have been the enemy, but he was still human. After reading so much about WWI, I have often thought that there was so much romanticism during this bloody period. Movie makers have missed so much. Like the French socialite who shot a French newspaper publisher before the war began because she was anti war and he was pro war. Or the German general on the Eastern front who was very aggresive and successful but was hated by the other German officers because he was clean shaven and smart. This Gerneral got himself out of position because he advanced too far. But, later, the German staff realized that he was in perfect position to destroy one of the two Russian armies moving in on Germany. And later, after the Russian General committed suicide because of his horrendous defeat, the German army allowed the Russian generals widow to search for and reclaim his body for proper burial. There are lots of untold stories that sound Hollywood but are true. Big Norm