My P08 model 42 is suffering from jams :(

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-26-2003, 12:59 AM

Hello folks, My luger is a non-matching Mauser model 42 and I have tried both "over the counter" 9mm including 44-40 Winchester Super-X 200 Gr soft point ammo and steel cased 115 Gr copper FMJ Wolf ammo, and both exhibit the famous jam every few rounds, and the toggle rarely remains open after the last round. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> Feels like weak ammo. Now, I have heard of P+ ammo that is a bit more powerful, and may add enough boost to avoid the jams and fully work the toggle action. I do not have the tools or know-how to make my own ammo. Can anyone tell me where to find readily and commercially available ammo that can help with this dillema? My MG-42 has far less problems, even with the occacional stuc casings in the breeck and ruptures and broken cases. At least I can fix those problems...

Any suggestions are desperately welcomed.

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-26-2003, 02:06 AM

Well, the mag spring appears strong, but I'll find another mag and see if it makes any difference. It seems as if the toggle isn't going back all the way, and it may be that the brech wants to close before the round has a chance to move high enough to get shoved into the breech. It could be multiple factors, but I have to change one at a time in order to solve this. I ask again, can anyone recommend where I can get a slightly stronger ammo to try?

Thor · 10-26-2003, 02:24 AM

First thing to check is a strong magazine spring and a good magazine. If the round is NOT in position (and it doesnt have long to get that way) when the breech closes it will jam everytime.
If you are getting feeding jams I would look at the magazine first. Try another one in your gun if you have it. (44-40 ammo????? "What the como se llama stuff is this???" )

Ron Wood · 10-26-2003, 02:29 AM

Are you grasping the Luger with a firm grip and keeping a stiff wrist? Lugers do not like a soft "match target pistol" grip.

Balder · 10-26-2003, 04:46 AM

Don't use P+ ammo in your Luger, it's too hefty.

Balder

rickyboy · 10-26-2003, 06:52 AM

p+ ammo is not the fix to your problem ...they ussually destroys the lugerÃ?Â´s delicate mechanisms !

we have to reload our own low charge rounds for our lugers ...

look somewhere else ...

Vlim · 10-26-2003, 07:25 AM

Hi,

One of the guys at the range had similar problems with his mauser. He was using FXO mags and I gave him my mec-gar magazine to try.

The mec-gar functioned flawlessly with his gun (funny since it doesn't in my 1906 DWM

.

Some (including me) have had good results with S&B 115gr FMJ.

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-26-2003, 02:37 PM

Okay, if P+ ammo isn't the correct solution, where can I buy good working magazines?

Hugh · 10-26-2003, 03:28 PM

Dariv,

Doug George did have Meg Gar mags for sale at a very reasonable price.
email: deg16@insightbb.com

They can also be found on the auction sites.

You might get a set of three mainsprings from Wolff.
website: www.gunsprings.com

They have a set with one underpower, one regular power, and one extra power. Experiment with these to see which works best with your ammo. I have found that the cheapest Winchester brand that Wallmart carries works great in most of my Lugers. It comes in a white box and is the economy brand in either 115 or 147 gr.

saxman · 10-26-2003, 05:15 PM

Has this pistol been detail-stripped, cleaned and oiled?

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-26-2003, 08:52 PM

Thanks for the help Hugh, and yes, Saxman, the luger is pristine clean and well oiled right down to the smallest pieces. All the parts are in exceptional condition and even the toggle parts show little to no wear or impact marks associated with lots of shooting. Not bad for a $680.00 shooter! I like the multiple force spring idea. Perhaps a change in spring will allow it to function with over the counter 9mm ammo.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 10-26-2003, 09:00 PM

Try another magazine, for sure. When I got my first Luger, a byf 42, I was told by the "experts" to get the ammo with the heaviest bullets, and full metal jackets. I did, but the gun was a single shot, occasionally allowing me to fire two shots before jamming. Then I read an article by Michael Reese suggesting a new magazine. I bought one as well as some other ammo, including a box with a very light soft point. I actually went thru several magazines before a jam occured. Then I got up the nerve to take it apart and I cleaned out all sorts of crud, and I used a good modern lubricant on the moving parts. Even today the gun shoots just about anything I can put thru with no jams. One exception, Corbin ammo. Seems to have trouble with it. I tried six other kinds last time and they all worked 100%. I would never call the Luger's action delicate...

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-26-2003, 09:34 PM

Tricky trying to solve the problem with the ammo change there, Johnny. The heavier bullets would slow round feeding because of inetia while at the same time raising barrel pressure since the bullt would take longer to leave the gun. The resultant would be hard to predict. I ordered two more Meg Gar mags and the three-spring spring set. I'll try the mags first, then the "normal" spring replacement, then the "lighter" spring replacement and see what results I get with WallMart Winchester ammo and/or Wolf ammo. Thanks for the leads all you guys! You make owning a first Luger so much easier!

AGE · 10-26-2003, 11:35 PM

Darivs,

Watch that Wolf ammo. It is steel case and can give BIG problems. Also, I had an overpressure jam using it in my S&W 3914 (thankfully not in a Luger). I had to open the gun by driving a rod down the barrel and pounding really hard. Very oversized steel case.

Wallymart Winchester in the 100 round packs at $10.70 per box work great in my four 9 mms (including my 2 Lugers).

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS · 10-27-2003, 12:53 AM

Okay.. It seems like the WInchester ammo worked a tiny bit more lreliably than Wolf anyhow. Thanks!

Lugerdoc · 10-27-2003, 08:49 AM

Darvis, I'm surprised in all of the above conventional wisdom regarding P08 mags and ammo, that no one has mentioned checking your extrator and ejector. Before I'd go to the trouble of changing recoil springs, I'd change these parts, including the extrator spring, to be sure that they were in spec. It's also possible that your barrel needs a ramp job or that your recoil (S shaped) link is out of spec. TH

Thor · 10-27-2003, 12:01 PM

I agree with Tom, check the extractor spring, I had one that had a very weak spring and it had ejection and feed problems. A new spring fixed it. From what I have seen it can be a problem but weak mag springs is a more prevalent problem. The recoil link is a new problem. I have not seen that one yet, but I trust the Lugerdoc's advice.

Lugerdoc · 10-28-2003, 09:21 AM

Thor, The recoil link is not a common problem, but if bent out of shape, it will either cause the breech block to come back too hard against the frame causeing damage, or not far enough to pick up a round consistently. Usually only a problem with parts guns or badly done reworks. Tom

Thor · 10-28-2003, 09:55 AM

Thanks Tom, that certainly makes sense!

Sieger · 10-28-2003, 10:35 AM

Darivs:

Trying a new magazine sounds like a good first step. The object will be to eliminate the variables, one by one, until the problem is cured.

Also, you can forget about a perfectly reliable function with your Luger unless you reload for it.

The ammo commercially available is not long enough for proper feeding in the Luger's step-feed magazine, so don't expect perfect function with this ammo, in any event.

The typical Luger jam, breach jamed over a cartridge half way out of the magazine, can be caused by numerous problems: mag. spring too weak, load too weak, load too strong, improper cartridge length, mainspring too strong, mainspring too weak, and there are more yet.

Typically, unless someone has tried to "fix" the problem by changing or cutting springs, the cartridge OAL seems to be the "usual suspect".

Yours is a mismatched pistol, so you have yet another variable to the equation.

Sieger

10-26-2003, 12:59 AM	#1
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My P08 model 42 is suffering from jams :( Hello folks, My luger is a non-matching Mauser model 42 and I have tried both "over the counter" 9mm including 44-40 Winchester Super-X 200 Gr soft point ammo and steel cased 115 Gr copper FMJ Wolf ammo, and both exhibit the famous jam every few rounds, and the toggle rarely remains open after the last round. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> Feels like weak ammo. Now, I have heard of P+ ammo that is a bit more powerful, and may add enough boost to avoid the jams and fully work the toggle action. I do not have the tools or know-how to make my own ammo. Can anyone tell me where to find readily and commercially available ammo that can help with this dillema? My MG-42 has far less problems, even with the occacional stuc casings in the breeck and ruptures and broken cases. At least I can fix those problems... Any suggestions are desperately welcomed. DARIVS ARCHITECTVS __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-26-2003, 02:06 AM	#2
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, the mag spring appears strong, but I'll find another mag and see if it makes any difference. It seems as if the toggle isn't going back all the way, and it may be that the brech wants to close before the round has a chance to move high enough to get shoved into the breech. It could be multiple factors, but I have to change one at a time in order to solve this. I ask again, can anyone recommend where I can get a slightly stronger ammo to try? __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-26-2003, 02:24 AM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	First thing to check is a strong magazine spring and a good magazine. If the round is NOT in position (and it doesnt have long to get that way) when the breech closes it will jam everytime. If you are getting feeding jams I would look at the magazine first. Try another one in your gun if you have it. (44-40 ammo????? "What the como se llama stuff is this???" ) __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-26-2003, 02:29 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Are you grasping the Luger with a firm grip and keeping a stiff wrist? Lugers do not like a soft "match target pistol" grip. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-26-2003, 02:37 PM	#8
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay, if P+ ammo isn't the correct solution, where can I buy good working magazines? __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-26-2003, 04:46 AM	#5
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Don't use P+ ammo in your Luger, it's too hefty. Balder

10-26-2003, 06:52 AM	#6
rickyboy User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	p+ ammo is not the fix to your problem ...they ussually destroys the lugerÃ?Â´s delicate mechanisms ! we have to reload our own low charge rounds for our lugers ... look somewhere else ...

10-26-2003, 07:25 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, One of the guys at the range had similar problems with his mauser. He was using FXO mags and I gave him my mec-gar magazine to try. The mec-gar functioned flawlessly with his gun (funny since it doesn't in my 1906 DWM . Some (including me) have had good results with S&B 115gr FMJ.

10-26-2003, 03:28 PM	#9
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Dariv, Doug George did have Meg Gar mags for sale at a very reasonable price. email: deg16@insightbb.com They can also be found on the auction sites. You might get a set of three mainsprings from Wolff. website: www.gunsprings.com They have a set with one underpower, one regular power, and one extra power. Experiment with these to see which works best with your ammo. I have found that the cheapest Winchester brand that Wallmart carries works great in most of my Lugers. It comes in a white box and is the economy brand in either 115 or 147 gr. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

10-26-2003, 05:15 PM	#10
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Has this pistol been detail-stripped, cleaned and oiled? __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

10-26-2003, 08:52 PM	#11
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help Hugh, and yes, Saxman, the luger is pristine clean and well oiled right down to the smallest pieces. All the parts are in exceptional condition and even the toggle parts show little to no wear or impact marks associated with lots of shooting. Not bad for a $680.00 shooter! I like the multiple force spring idea. Perhaps a change in spring will allow it to function with over the counter 9mm ammo. __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-26-2003, 09:00 PM	#12
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Try another magazine, for sure. When I got my first Luger, a byf 42, I was told by the "experts" to get the ammo with the heaviest bullets, and full metal jackets. I did, but the gun was a single shot, occasionally allowing me to fire two shots before jamming. Then I read an article by Michael Reese suggesting a new magazine. I bought one as well as some other ammo, including a box with a very light soft point. I actually went thru several magazines before a jam occured. Then I got up the nerve to take it apart and I cleaned out all sorts of crud, and I used a good modern lubricant on the moving parts. Even today the gun shoots just about anything I can put thru with no jams. One exception, Corbin ammo. Seems to have trouble with it. I tried six other kinds last time and they all worked 100%. I would never call the Luger's action delicate... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

10-26-2003, 09:34 PM	#13
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tricky trying to solve the problem with the ammo change there, Johnny. The heavier bullets would slow round feeding because of inetia while at the same time raising barrel pressure since the bullt would take longer to leave the gun. The resultant would be hard to predict. I ordered two more Meg Gar mags and the three-spring spring set. I'll try the mags first, then the "normal" spring replacement, then the "lighter" spring replacement and see what results I get with WallMart Winchester ammo and/or Wolf ammo. Thanks for the leads all you guys! You make owning a first Luger so much easier! __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-26-2003, 11:35 PM	#14
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Darivs, Watch that Wolf ammo. It is steel case and can give BIG problems. Also, I had an overpressure jam using it in my S&W 3914 (thankfully not in a Luger). I had to open the gun by driving a rod down the barrel and pounding really hard. Very oversized steel case. Wallymart Winchester in the 100 round packs at $10.70 per box work great in my four 9 mms (including my 2 Lugers). __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

10-27-2003, 12:53 AM	#15
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay.. It seems like the WInchester ammo worked a tiny bit more lreliably than Wolf anyhow. Thanks! __________________ DARIVS ARCHITECTVS Knight's Armoury www.stormthewalls.com

10-27-2003, 08:49 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Darvis, I'm surprised in all of the above conventional wisdom regarding P08 mags and ammo, that no one has mentioned checking your extrator and ejector. Before I'd go to the trouble of changing recoil springs, I'd change these parts, including the extrator spring, to be sure that they were in spec. It's also possible that your barrel needs a ramp job or that your recoil (S shaped) link is out of spec. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-27-2003, 12:01 PM	#17
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I agree with Tom, check the extractor spring, I had one that had a very weak spring and it had ejection and feed problems. A new spring fixed it. From what I have seen it can be a problem but weak mag springs is a more prevalent problem. The recoil link is a new problem. I have not seen that one yet, but I trust the Lugerdoc's advice. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-28-2003, 09:21 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Thor, The recoil link is not a common problem, but if bent out of shape, it will either cause the breech block to come back too hard against the frame causeing damage, or not far enough to pick up a round consistently. Usually only a problem with parts guns or badly done reworks. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-28-2003, 09:55 AM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Thanks Tom, that certainly makes sense! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-28-2003, 10:35 AM	#20
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,142 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Darivs: Trying a new magazine sounds like a good first step. The object will be to eliminate the variables, one by one, until the problem is cured. Also, you can forget about a perfectly reliable function with your Luger unless you reload for it. The ammo commercially available is not long enough for proper feeding in the Luger's step-feed magazine, so don't expect perfect function with this ammo, in any event. The typical Luger jam, breach jamed over a cartridge half way out of the magazine, can be caused by numerous problems: mag. spring too weak, load too weak, load too strong, improper cartridge length, mainspring too strong, mainspring too weak, and there are more yet. Typically, unless someone has tried to "fix" the problem by changing or cutting springs, the cartridge OAL seems to be the "usual suspect". Yours is a mismatched pistol, so you have yet another variable to the equation. Sieger