byf41 rig

Mike Fitz · 11-27-2003, 12:53 AM

Hi Guys,
First off HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
I just acquired my second Luger. It is a byf 41, Serial # is 17 y.
It came with 2 magazines, a tool and a 1941 dated holster
All numbered parts including rear toggle pin are matching (17).
Side plate is numbered 17 on front and 1 on back.
Finish is original with some holster wear showing on the sharp edges, end of the barrel,side plate and rear grip strap.
There are a few small pit marks on the right side of the upper receiver behind the proof marks.
I would rate the finish at about 93%
The white paint in the word GESICHERT is missing from all of the letters except GES.
Proof marks on upper right receiver are two Eagel/655Ã¢??s and the Eagle/Swastika proof.
Wooden grips show some wear and they are each numbered 17 and proofed Eagle/655.
There is a small Eagle/655 on right side of barrel and Eagle/Swastika on left. Underside of barrel is marked 17 and 8,83.
Bore is excellent with no signs of pitting.
Both magazines are marked on left side P.08 fxo and have two Eagle/37 Waffenamts one near the top and one near the bottom.
One has an unmarked base and the other is numbered 8113 t and +.
The tool has Waffenamt Eagle/655.
The holster is a black leather hard-shell and the stitching while dirty is all intact. It has the compartment for the tool on the inside of the flap.
It is marked on the back. Upper right side large P 08. Upper left side reads E.G. LEUNER GmbH BAUTZEN 1941. It has a Waffenamt Eagle/Swastika/ WaA 159.
Holster shows nice wear and the only real downside is that there are four holes on the flap. Two on each side of the strap.
The person I got this rig from said there were 2 metal Nazi emblems/insignia that the Vet he acquired it from had attached to the holster but he removed them prior to selling it.
I have included some pictures for your viewing pleasure
Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block?
As always your comments and advice are appreciated
Thanks,

Mike

Mike Fitz · 11-27-2003, 12:55 AM

Here are the magazine & holster pictures
Mike

Lonnie Zimmerman · 11-27-2003, 01:15 AM

Very nice. Congratulations!
Lonnie

Mike Fitz · 11-27-2003, 01:45 AM

Thanks Lonnie.
Happy Thanksgiving
Mike

Dwight Gruber · 11-27-2003, 02:09 AM

Very sweet piece. Wouldn't one expect the firing pin to be fluted?

--Dwight

Mike Fitz · 11-27-2003, 08:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
Very sweet piece. Wouldn't one expect the firing pin to be fluted?

--Dwight<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Dwight.
Please excuse my ignorance but Im not sure what what you mean by "fluted".
Happy Thanksgiving
Mike

Lugerdoc · 11-27-2003, 09:25 AM

Mike, You appear to have acquired a very nice honest PO8 rig, with the possible exception of the firing pin, which should also be numbered 17 with 3 relief cuts milled into the front. I do have a few unnumbered ones of this type, but unfortunately no #17 to offer. TH

saxman · 11-27-2003, 10:49 AM

But the pin is numbered to the gun. Would an armorer have done that with a replacement?

Mike Fitz · 11-27-2003, 10:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lugerdoc:
Mike, You appear to have acquired a very nice honest PO8 rig, with the possible exception of the firing pin, which should also be numbered 17 with 3 relief cuts milled into the front. I do have a few unnumbered ones of this type, but unfortunately no #17 to offer. TH<hr /></blockquote>Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply.
I guess the 3 relief cuts milled into the front is what Dwight meant by fluted.
<img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
I field stripped the Luger after reading your posting and it does indeed have the 3 grooves on the opposite side from where the 17 is stamped.
The 17 appears to have been stamped but not very well. Almost like the stamp slid when it was struck. There is also a trace of cosmoline or some type of dried grease in that area.
I have included a jpg.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving,
Mike

kidvett · 11-27-2003, 12:19 PM

Mike,

Very nice Rig !! 2 digits pistols are not that common...

Congrats !! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

RockinWR · 11-27-2003, 02:46 PM

Mike,
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block?<hr /></blockquote>* Yes, the numeral "1" on the I/Side of the Sideplate is correct for your two digit byf '41.
* The "fxo" mags are also period correct; although, slightly early for the "y" block. IMHO, they would not be incorrect as Mauser was using up Al. bottoms as they were introducing the black plastic versions.
Respectfully,
Bob

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2003, 05:19 PM

GREAT RIG!!

Happy Thanksgiving, great gun!

Ed

Heydrich · 11-27-2003, 10:03 PM

I agree with Doc, looks like a nice honest piece. When I saw that unnumbered magazine, my jaw hit the table. Whoever sold it to you must have been at least moderately honest (a vet maybe?), since they didn’t sell it on eBay for a boatload of money, or succumb to the temptation to alter it. Do you know anything about this P.08’s history?

Mike Fitz · 11-28-2003, 02:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kidvett:
Mike,

Very nice Rig !! 2 digits pistols are not that common...

Congrats !! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Thanks Mark

Mike

Mike Fitz · 11-28-2003, 02:18 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RockinWR:
Mike,
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block?<hr /></blockquote>* Yes, the numeral "1" on the I/Side of the Sideplate is correct for your two digit byf '41.
* The "fxo" mags are also period correct; although, slightly early for the "y" block. IMHO, they would not be incorrect as Mauser was using up Al. bottoms as they were introducing the black plastic versions.
Respectfully,
Bob<hr /></blockquote>Hi Bob,
Thanks for the information.
I wasn't sure about the side plate inside number because of what I read on this forum about the inside number being one higher then the first digit of the serial number. I thought possibly it should be 2.

Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms?
Best regards,
Mike

Mike Fitz · 11-28-2003, 02:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
GREAT RIG!!

Happy Thanksgiving, great gun!

Ed<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Ed.
Best regards,
Mike

Dwight Gruber · 11-28-2003, 03:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mike Fitz:

Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms?<hr /></blockquote>Mike,

The black Bakelite magazine bottoms were not numbered because the material is too brittle to take the stamping.

--Dwight

Mike Fitz · 11-28-2003, 04:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mike Fitz:

Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms?<hr /></blockquote>Mike,

The black Bakelite magazine bottoms were not numbered because the material is too brittle to take the stamping.

--Dwight<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Dwight.
Best regards,
Mike

Mike Fitz · 11-28-2003, 05:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Heydrich:
I agree with Doc, looks like a nice honest piece. When I saw that unnumbered magazine, my jaw hit the table. Whoever sold it to you must have been at least moderately honest (a vet maybe?), since they didnÃ¢??t sell it on eBay for a boatload of money, or succumb to the temptation to alter it. Do you know anything about this P.08Ã¢??s history?<hr /></blockquote>Hi Heydrich/Curt,
Thanks for your comments.
The person I got the Luger from obtained it back in 1987 from a WW2 Veteran who was retiring and moving out of state.
All he could tell me was that the Vet told him he brought it home from Germany in late 1945.
When he first was showed this rig there were 2 metal Nazi insignia that the vet had attached to the holster flap. At the last minute the Vet decided to keep the insignia and removed them prior to the sale.
Unfortunately he didn't ask any of the details about how this rig was obtained and the Vet volunteered no information.
The gentleman I got it from said in the 16 years he has had it he never fired it although he checked it periodically and stripped & oiled it at least once a year.
He is a retired Police Officer and his wife and daughter wanted him to get rid of his guns because of his grandchildren.
He also obtained from this same Vet a 1938 Code 42 Mauser 98K rifle, ALL matching except for the bolt assembly which is partially matching. Lots of nice clear Waffenamts E/63, E/WaA63 & Nazi proofs on the metal & the stock.
The bad news is that the seller converted it to a sporter by cutting off the front approximately 8 inches of the stock.
<img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />
He wanted $750.00 for the Luger rig and threw in the 98K to cinch the deal.
The rest is history.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Best regards,
Mike

Johnny C. Kitchens · 11-28-2003, 09:24 PM

I notice there is a difference in the aluminum base of the two magazines. Their shapes are not the same. Is this common???

11-27-2003, 01:15 AM	#3
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Very nice. Congratulations! Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

11-27-2003, 08:58 AM	#6
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber: <strong>Very sweet piece. Wouldn't one expect the firing pin to be fluted? --Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thanks Dwight. Please excuse my ignorance but Im not sure what what you mean by "fluted". Happy Thanksgiving Mike

11-27-2003, 09:25 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Mike, You appear to have acquired a very nice honest PO8 rig, with the possible exception of the firing pin, which should also be numbered 17 with 3 relief cuts milled into the front. I do have a few unnumbered ones of this type, but unfortunately no #17 to offer. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-27-2003, 10:49 AM	#8
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	But the pin is numbered to the gun. Would an armorer have done that with a replacement? __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

11-27-2003, 10:56 AM	#9
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lugerdoc: <strong>Mike, You appear to have acquired a very nice honest PO8 rig, with the possible exception of the firing pin, which should also be numbered 17 with 3 relief cuts milled into the front. I do have a few unnumbered ones of this type, but unfortunately no #17 to offer. TH</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply. I guess the 3 relief cuts milled into the front is what Dwight meant by fluted. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> I field stripped the Luger after reading your posting and it does indeed have the 3 grooves on the opposite side from where the 17 is stamped. The 17 appears to have been stamped but not very well. Almost like the stamp slid when it was struck. There is also a trace of cosmoline or some type of dried grease in that area. I have included a jpg. Have a Happy Thanksgiving, Mike

11-27-2003, 12:53 AM	#1
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf41 rig Hi Guys, First off HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> I just acquired my second Luger. It is a byf 41, Serial # is 17 y. It came with 2 magazines, a tool and a 1941 dated holster All numbered parts including rear toggle pin are matching (17). Side plate is numbered 17 on front and 1 on back. Finish is original with some holster wear showing on the sharp edges, end of the barrel,side plate and rear grip strap. There are a few small pit marks on the right side of the upper receiver behind the proof marks. I would rate the finish at about 93% The white paint in the word GESICHERT is missing from all of the letters except GES. Proof marks on upper right receiver are two Eagel/655Ã¢??s and the Eagle/Swastika proof. Wooden grips show some wear and they are each numbered 17 and proofed Eagle/655. There is a small Eagle/655 on right side of barrel and Eagle/Swastika on left. Underside of barrel is marked 17 and 8,83. Bore is excellent with no signs of pitting. Both magazines are marked on left side P.08 fxo and have two Eagle/37 Waffenamts one near the top and one near the bottom. One has an unmarked base and the other is numbered 8113 t and +. The tool has Waffenamt Eagle/655. The holster is a black leather hard-shell and the stitching while dirty is all intact. It has the compartment for the tool on the inside of the flap. It is marked on the back. Upper right side large P 08. Upper left side reads E.G. LEUNER GmbH BAUTZEN 1941. It has a Waffenamt Eagle/Swastika/ WaA 159. Holster shows nice wear and the only real downside is that there are four holes on the flap. Two on each side of the strap. The person I got this rig from said there were 2 metal Nazi emblems/insignia that the Vet he acquired it from had attached to the holster but he removed them prior to selling it. I have included some pictures for your viewing pleasure Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block? As always your comments and advice are appreciated Thanks, Mike

11-27-2003, 12:55 AM	#2
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the magazine & holster pictures Mike

11-27-2003, 01:45 AM	#4
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Lonnie. Happy Thanksgiving Mike

11-27-2003, 02:09 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Very sweet piece. Wouldn't one expect the firing pin to be fluted? --Dwight

11-27-2003, 12:19 PM	#10
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Mike, Very nice Rig !! 2 digits pistols are not that common... Congrats !! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

11-27-2003, 02:46 PM	#11
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Mike, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">* Yes, the numeral "1" on the I/Side of the Sideplate is correct for your two digit byf '41. * The "fxo" mags are also period correct; although, slightly early for the "y" block. IMHO, they would not be incorrect as Mauser was using up Al. bottoms as they were introducing the black plastic versions. Respectfully, Bob

11-27-2003, 05:19 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,594 Times in 2,116 Posts	GREAT RIG!! Happy Thanksgiving, great gun! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-27-2003, 10:03 PM	#13
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree with Doc, looks like a nice honest piece. When I saw that unnumbered magazine, my jaw hit the table. Whoever sold it to you must have been at least moderately honest (a vet maybe?), since they didn’t sell it on eBay for a boatload of money, or succumb to the temptation to alter it. Do you know anything about this P.08’s history?

11-28-2003, 02:05 AM	#14
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by kidvett: <strong>Mike, Very nice Rig !! 2 digits pistols are not that common... Congrats !! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thanks Mark Mike

11-28-2003, 02:18 AM	#15
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by RockinWR: <strong>Mike, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Is the number 1 on the back of the side plate correct and are Eagle/37 magazines correct for a byf41 in the Y block?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">* Yes, the numeral "1" on the I/Side of the Sideplate is correct for your two digit byf '41. * The "fxo" mags are also period correct; although, slightly early for the "y" block. IMHO, they would not be incorrect as Mauser was using up Al. bottoms as they were introducing the black plastic versions. Respectfully, Bob</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Bob, Thanks for the information. I wasn't sure about the side plate inside number because of what I read on this forum about the inside number being one higher then the first digit of the serial number. I thought possibly it should be 2. Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms? Best regards, Mike

11-28-2003, 02:21 AM	#16
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Edward Tinker: <strong>GREAT RIG!! Happy Thanksgiving, great gun! Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thanks Ed. Best regards, Mike

11-28-2003, 03:12 AM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Mike Fitz: <strong> Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Mike, The black Bakelite magazine bottoms were not numbered because the material is too brittle to take the stamping. --Dwight

11-28-2003, 04:09 AM	#18
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Mike Fitz: <strong> Did Mauser stop numbering the magazines with the introduction of the ones with black plastic bottoms?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Mike, The black Bakelite magazine bottoms were not numbered because the material is too brittle to take the stamping. --Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thanks Dwight. Best regards, Mike

11-28-2003, 05:34 AM	#19
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Heydrich: <strong>I agree with Doc, looks like a nice honest piece. When I saw that unnumbered magazine, my jaw hit the table. Whoever sold it to you must have been at least moderately honest (a vet maybe?), since they didnÃ¢??t sell it on eBay for a boatload of money, or succumb to the temptation to alter it. Do you know anything about this P.08Ã¢??s history?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Heydrich/Curt, Thanks for your comments. The person I got the Luger from obtained it back in 1987 from a WW2 Veteran who was retiring and moving out of state. All he could tell me was that the Vet told him he brought it home from Germany in late 1945. When he first was showed this rig there were 2 metal Nazi insignia that the vet had attached to the holster flap. At the last minute the Vet decided to keep the insignia and removed them prior to the sale. Unfortunately he didn't ask any of the details about how this rig was obtained and the Vet volunteered no information. The gentleman I got it from said in the 16 years he has had it he never fired it although he checked it periodically and stripped & oiled it at least once a year. He is a retired Police Officer and his wife and daughter wanted him to get rid of his guns because of his grandchildren. He also obtained from this same Vet a 1938 Code 42 Mauser 98K rifle, ALL matching except for the bolt assembly which is partially matching. Lots of nice clear Waffenamts E/63, E/WaA63 & Nazi proofs on the metal & the stock. The bad news is that the seller converted it to a sporter by cutting off the front approximately 8 inches of the stock. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> He wanted $750.00 for the Luger rig and threw in the 98K to cinch the deal. The rest is history. Sorry for being so long winded. Best regards, Mike

11-28-2003, 09:24 PM	#20
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I notice there is a difference in the aluminum base of the two magazines. Their shapes are not the same. Is this common??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens