1916 Erfurt Busted breechblock!

kenfromalaska · 04-09-2003, 01:16 AM

Was semi aggravated today, so took my 1916 Erfurt Luger out of the truck (dont worry purists its a well worn shooter of indeterminate origin, albiet all matching and rebarreled by Hugh Clark), loaded up some reloads (light ones) and started blasting. The first shot was dead on, noticed the second and third flying around. It jammed on the fourth and I could barely get the toggle open. Totally jammed on the fifth, and when I got the toggle open, the breech block literally fell apart in my hands. It had a crack half way across and was shattered where the pin connects it to the forward link. No other damage I can see. The broken piece looked virtually crystalline. Granted its a 90 year old pistol that has seen god knows how many rounds, but I am sort of bummed.

Anybody else ever have an experience like this?

BTW anybody got a breech block, cheap? If not anybody have any evaluation of the various breech blocks sold out there (ie by Marstar, etc), I see Sarco has unissued ones for $120 which sure as heck isnt going into this pistole!

lugerholsterrepair · 04-09-2003, 01:56 AM

Ken, I purchased a Mauser, 40-42 and found the pistol had several severe cracks in it. Behind the toggle knobs was cracked left to right. The left side rail was cracked halfway through and there was a crack in the frame. I bought it that way so don't quite know how it got in that condition. I sure was surprized to see so many cracks in one P-08. Jerry Burney

kenfromalaska · 04-09-2003, 03:58 AM

Well heck holster, got a breech block from that one?

Lugerdoc · 04-09-2003, 10:21 AM

Ken, I have solid used original breech blocks available starting @$75. The new Sarco ones are of E.Ger manufacture and I passed on these before Sarco purchased them, as the sample that I was sent, was not completely drilled out on the inside, so that a standard firing pin would not fit. Tom H.

kenfromalaska · 04-09-2003, 02:44 PM

Hi Tom, how much fitting is necessary...ie is this an expert job or something we can do here in our shop (1911s and other smithing)

AGE · 04-09-2003, 11:51 PM

Guys,

Most steels become brittle as temperature drops. Even at 50 F, the old steel starts to become brittle. Alaska sounds cold to me (was the gun cold when you were shooting it?), I suggest you try to warm up these old guns before shooting them.

Send them to Florida, and I'll shoot them for you.

kenfromalaska · 04-10-2003, 12:45 AM

Hi it was shot inside and it was warm...

Besides its warmer here than in...well the North Pole....

Lugerdoc · 04-10-2003, 11:10 AM

Ken, Generally no fitting is required when changing breeck blocks, but since the firing pin is now repositioned, this may affect the FP release or trigger pull. Tom H.

Sgt Art · 04-11-2003, 10:28 AM

I seriously doubt the cold had much to do with it. Germany isn't exactly the tropics. More than likely it was defective (hidden faults in the original piece of steel) or perhaps a previous owner fired a lot of very hot ammo through it. The original German 9mm was pretty warm to begin with.

It would be interesting to know what sort of failures the R&D departments of the various manufactorers and German armorers came up with, i.e. after 5,000 rounds the breech should be replaced or typically showed signs of beginning to fail. Problem is, who keeps count especially when guns like these have been through so many hands.

kenfromalaska · 04-12-2003, 03:21 PM

>>>Ken, Generally no fitting is required when changing breeck blocks, but since the firing pin is now repositioned, this may affect the FP release or trigger pull. Tom H.<<<

So basically Im gonna do a trigger job again...

kenfromalaska · 04-12-2003, 03:41 PM

***I seriously doubt the cold had much to do with it. Germany isn't exactly the tropics. More than likely it was defective (hidden faults in the original piece of steel) or perhaps a previous owner fired a lot of very hot ammo through it. The original German 9mm was pretty warm to begin with.***

Funny when I got this one (as a project) it was a 30 Luger but the barrel wasnt straight..I assumed that I had one that had been post war rebarreled and not wanting to shoot 30 Luger I had it redone to 9mm.

It has seen a lot of abuse, got it out in bush Alaska....

04-09-2003, 01:16 AM	#1
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1916 Erfurt Busted breechblock! Was semi aggravated today, so took my 1916 Erfurt Luger out of the truck (dont worry purists its a well worn shooter of indeterminate origin, albiet all matching and rebarreled by Hugh Clark), loaded up some reloads (light ones) and started blasting. The first shot was dead on, noticed the second and third flying around. It jammed on the fourth and I could barely get the toggle open. Totally jammed on the fifth, and when I got the toggle open, the breech block literally fell apart in my hands. It had a crack half way across and was shattered where the pin connects it to the forward link. No other damage I can see. The broken piece looked virtually crystalline. Granted its a 90 year old pistol that has seen god knows how many rounds, but I am sort of bummed. Anybody else ever have an experience like this? BTW anybody got a breech block, cheap? If not anybody have any evaluation of the various breech blocks sold out there (ie by Marstar, etc), I see Sarco has unissued ones for $120 which sure as heck isnt going into this pistole!

04-09-2003, 01:56 AM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ken, I purchased a Mauser, 40-42 and found the pistol had several severe cracks in it. Behind the toggle knobs was cracked left to right. The left side rail was cracked halfway through and there was a crack in the frame. I bought it that way so don't quite know how it got in that condition. I sure was surprized to see so many cracks in one P-08. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-09-2003, 10:21 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Ken, I have solid used original breech blocks available starting @$75. The new Sarco ones are of E.Ger manufacture and I passed on these before Sarco purchased them, as the sample that I was sent, was not completely drilled out on the inside, so that a standard firing pin would not fit. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-09-2003, 11:51 PM	#6
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, Most steels become brittle as temperature drops. Even at 50 F, the old steel starts to become brittle. Alaska sounds cold to me (was the gun cold when you were shooting it?), I suggest you try to warm up these old guns before shooting them. Send them to Florida, and I'll shoot them for you. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

04-10-2003, 11:10 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Ken, Generally no fitting is required when changing breeck blocks, but since the firing pin is now repositioned, this may affect the FP release or trigger pull. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-09-2003, 03:58 AM	#3
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well heck holster, got a breech block from that one?

04-09-2003, 02:44 PM	#5
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Tom, how much fitting is necessary...ie is this an expert job or something we can do here in our shop (1911s and other smithing)

04-10-2003, 12:45 AM	#7
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi it was shot inside and it was warm... Besides its warmer here than in...well the North Pole....

04-11-2003, 10:28 AM	#9
Sgt Art User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SC Posts: 58 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I seriously doubt the cold had much to do with it. Germany isn't exactly the tropics. More than likely it was defective (hidden faults in the original piece of steel) or perhaps a previous owner fired a lot of very hot ammo through it. The original German 9mm was pretty warm to begin with. It would be interesting to know what sort of failures the R&D departments of the various manufactorers and German armorers came up with, i.e. after 5,000 rounds the breech should be replaced or typically showed signs of beginning to fail. Problem is, who keeps count especially when guns like these have been through so many hands.

04-12-2003, 03:21 PM	#10
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	>>>Ken, Generally no fitting is required when changing breeck blocks, but since the firing pin is now repositioned, this may affect the FP release or trigger pull. Tom H.<<< So basically Im gonna do a trigger job again...

04-12-2003, 03:41 PM	#11
kenfromalaska User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Alaska Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	*I seriously doubt the cold had much to do with it. Germany isn't exactly the tropics. More than likely it was defective (hidden faults in the original piece of steel) or perhaps a previous owner fired a lot of very hot ammo through it. The original German 9mm was pretty warm to begin with.* Funny when I got this one (as a project) it was a 30 Luger but the barrel wasnt straight..I assumed that I had one that had been post war rebarreled and not wanting to shoot 30 Luger I had it redone to 9mm. It has seen a lot of abuse, got it out in bush Alaska....