2-Digit 1912 P-08...

Pete Ebbink · 07-11-2004, 10:34 PM

Not too often you see them with only 2-digits :

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=20302389

Hugh · 07-12-2004, 12:34 PM

<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> Quite true Pete. I have a no date Simson SN 11, a 1900 DWM commercial SN 65, and a G S/42 SN 70f. It would be interesting to see if other Forum members have double digit guns. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

Doug G. · 07-12-2004, 03:41 PM

I have a Weimar 1921 DWM Sn. 24a. and three 3 digit P.08's

Ron Wood · 07-12-2004, 09:25 PM

OK, Hugh. You got my attention. A two digit (65) 1900 Commercial...that is an EXTREMELY early commercial! Any chance of some photos? I have a bazillion questions about it, but I can wait for photos if you would consider posting a few.

saxman · 07-12-2004, 09:33 PM

Okay, why doesn't it have a suffix letter?

Ron Wood · 07-12-2004, 09:41 PM

It doesn't have a suffix letter because it was the 82nd Luger from the first 10,000 units produced in 1912. It would not acquire a suffix letter unless it was the 10,082nd (82a) or 20,082nd (82b) miltary Luger produced that year

Dwight Gruber · 07-13-2004, 12:04 AM

I don't rermember now, and don't have the source material in front of me, but maybe someone else can come up with it--just how many Lugers were DWM producing per day in 1912? This gun has got to be at least from the first week of production...

And Hugh,

I share Ron's interest in your 2-digit 1900 Commercial (or any other commercial serial# range Luger you might be salting away) for my survey...hint, hint...

--Dwight

Luke · 07-13-2004, 09:21 AM

Actually this gun showed up on GunBroker last year.

At the time I was researching the transition of serial numbers from "commercial locations" to "military locations" on DWMs, and I wrote the seller asking about the SN positioning. The seller confirmed that the locations were of the military type. These pictures confirm it once again.

This very early 1912 DWM supports my existing data on (22) 1911 DWMs and (13) 1912 DWMs suggesting that the transition from commercial marking to military marking started in late 1911 between 88xxe and 93xxe with a 497 unit uncertainty.

I would be very grateful if anyone can provide additional data which supports or disproves this hypothesis. Please use my email address, below.

Luke (lugesm@charter.net)

Edward Tinker · 07-13-2004, 10:04 AM

Luke, would it make sense to look at german military revolvers purchased prior to this time? i.e. that they would be "military" marked or "commerical" marked?

ed

Hugh · 07-13-2004, 10:28 AM

Ron & Dwight,

Here are the requested pics. When I obtained this gun it had been severely buffed, with rounded corners, and the DWM logo virtually eliminated. The SN had been buffed off the front of the frame and the bore was smooth, (except for all the rust pits in it!) But it was all there and functioned ok. The trigger and sideplate do not have matching numbers.

The only places that the SN remains are the recoil lug on the receiver, the breech block and the middle toggle. There are no other markings, any others having buffed away long ago.

I replaced the bbl with a new Swiss one, and as you can see by the "before" pics, Ted Green did an outstanding job of refinishing this piece of junk!

07-11-2004, 10:34 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	2-Digit 1912 P-08... Not too often you see them with only 2-digits : http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=20302389

07-12-2004, 12:34 PM	#2
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> Quite true Pete. I have a no date Simson SN 11, a 1900 DWM commercial SN 65, and a G S/42 SN 70f. It would be interesting to see if other Forum members have double digit guns. <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-12-2004, 03:41 PM	#3
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	I have a Weimar 1921 DWM Sn. 24a. and three 3 digit P.08's __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

07-12-2004, 09:25 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	OK, Hugh. You got my attention. A two digit (65) 1900 Commercial...that is an EXTREMELY early commercial! Any chance of some photos? I have a bazillion questions about it, but I can wait for photos if you would consider posting a few. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-12-2004, 09:33 PM	#5
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Okay, why doesn't it have a suffix letter? __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

07-12-2004, 09:41 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	It doesn't have a suffix letter because it was the 82nd Luger from the first 10,000 units produced in 1912. It would not acquire a suffix letter unless it was the 10,082nd (82a) or 20,082nd (82b) miltary Luger produced that year __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-13-2004, 12:04 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	I don't rermember now, and don't have the source material in front of me, but maybe someone else can come up with it--just how many Lugers were DWM producing per day in 1912? This gun has got to be at least from the first week of production... And Hugh, I share Ron's interest in your 2-digit 1900 Commercial (or any other commercial serial# range Luger you might be salting away) for my survey...hint, hint... --Dwight

07-13-2004, 09:21 AM	#8
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Actually this gun showed up on GunBroker last year. At the time I was researching the transition of serial numbers from "commercial locations" to "military locations" on DWMs, and I wrote the seller asking about the SN positioning. The seller confirmed that the locations were of the military type. These pictures confirm it once again. This very early 1912 DWM supports my existing data on (22) 1911 DWMs and (13) 1912 DWMs suggesting that the transition from commercial marking to military marking started in late 1911 between 88xxe and 93xxe with a 497 unit uncertainty. I would be very grateful if anyone can provide additional data which supports or disproves this hypothesis. Please use my email address, below. Luke (lugesm@charter.net) __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-13-2004, 10:04 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Luke, would it make sense to look at german military revolvers purchased prior to this time? i.e. that they would be "military" marked or "commerical" marked? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-13-2004, 10:28 AM	#10
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Ron & Dwight, Here are the requested pics. When I obtained this gun it had been severely buffed, with rounded corners, and the DWM logo virtually eliminated. The SN had been buffed off the front of the frame and the bore was smooth, (except for all the rust pits in it!) But it was all there and functioned ok. The trigger and sideplate do not have matching numbers. The only places that the SN remains are the recoil lug on the receiver, the breech block and the middle toggle. There are no other markings, any others having buffed away long ago. I replaced the bbl with a new Swiss one, and as you can see by the "before" pics, Ted Green did an outstanding job of refinishing this piece of junk! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*