P08 Holster Markings

Robert,

I saw you earlier posting and I might be able to find some information, I need the following information:

1. What size is tha marking?

2. Where on the Holster is it located?

3. Is it pressed (stamped),inked, or hand scratched into the leather?

4. What is style, color, and year of the holster?

5. which direction on the holster is the tip of the sword facing? ( I'm trying to estanlish the orientation)

I will try to find some info once I get these answers, I need to understand at what level the marking was applied and these answers will help narrow it down.

[Robert Wiggins]

Thanks "bcc"


Please see graphic image of holster with marking circled in yellow!


1. What size is tha marking?


It's 1/4 inch long (left to right)


2. Where on the Holster is it located?


Top left of holster (trigger guard side) Not on flap!


3. Is it pressed (stamped),inked, or hand scratched into the leather?


It appears to be pressed or stamped. Due to age it's hard to tell since edges are rounded I wouldn't rule out pressing but uniformity suggests that a stamp was used.


4. What is style, color, and year of the holster?


You can determin style from picture. colour is reddish brown inside, dark brown outside due to ageing.


5. which direction on the holster is the tip of the sword facing? ( I'm trying to estanlish the orientation)


As you can see from photo, pommel of sword is on left side. I'm not sure we are correct in assuming it is a sword, but rather that it is "Sword like".


Again many thanks






http://www3.sympatico.ca/robertwiggi...ster_marks.jpg

[Patrick]

It definitely looks like Mercury�´s staff - and the winged staff is a faily general military symbol for a signals unit. During WWI & II the Germans called this a "Melder" - in Britain he was called a "runner". Of course, Mercury was also the Greek god of thieves - he might have stolen it. Patrick

[Robert Wiggins]

Patrick;


Your reference to a signals unit is very interesting. If you look at my profile you will see that my father ovtained this P08 in Neijmegen Holland in late 44 I believe from a Lieutenant. That's all the info I have unfortunately.


Do you know of any publication/book that would confirm your comments re the marking.

[Patrick]

Give me a bit of time and I�´ll see if I can find something. Patrick

First let me say that I am very puzzled by several aspects of the marking although I do appreciate your excellent photograph. Generally, any marking found on a German holster (assuming it was period applied, and I believe that this one was) is going to relate to either the manufacturer, the distributer (if comercial), the procuring organization or Service branch (ie. Navy, Luftwaffe, SA, SS etc...) gaining unit, or individual owner ( i.e hand applied initials, family crest, etc..). The most puzzling aspect of this marking is the small size and location. Of the possibilities listed above, I can only guess that this is a unit marking and was applied simply as a matter of local policy to denote property of the unit. The use of symbols rather than nomenclature for this purpose is somewhat irregular....but stranger things have been seen. I have a two set volume of books that were published in Germany about 15 years ago. These books document via the use of carefully rendered line drawings over 2000 WWII German military unit symbols (hence the lag in my response time!). After going through the symbols in these volumes (they cover Army, Navy Luftwaffe,SS, Police)from Army Group to Battlion level, I have found three that could represent what this symbol APPEARS to be. All three are Luftwaffe and two are for bomber squadrons and one is a costal patrol squadron. I can supply the names later if you are interested and the book gives a brief history of these units as well as every unit that has a symbol (about all of them) These three symbols all are single swords with stylized wing design incorporated into the hilt part of the sword symbol. Given that the holster is brown and in what appears to be nice condition, this would fit a possible Luftwaffe connection. One problem always to be considered in military equipment is that where something (or the unit which something belonged to) was not always where it stayed.

This is my best stab given what I have to work with, by the way most signal units had symbols based around lightning bolts (at least in the book). Hope it helps

[Robert Wiggins]

Thanks to BCC and Patrick for their input on this issue. It is greatly appreciated.


I would like to add that the symbol was also utilized on the fuselage of Geshcwader 1a (Well known pilot Helmut Wick's squadron carried this. It may not be pertinent to the Pistol holster though.


Artillery and anti-aircraft units also had similar tactical signs but I have only seen them in the vertical plane, not the horizontal. This would also apply to the 20th panzer division. The "sword" image is fairly common among the german military so I hesitate to consider these occurrences as conclusive evidence that the P.08 holster came from one of these units. I would prefer to find evidence within the holster manufacturers that this mark is documented. If not then I suspect that it was a unit or individual application.


Again I thank all for their efforts and hope that if anything comes to light, that you post or e-mail me.

[Patrick]

... just back from the airfield. My source there says that it could be anything... but it�´s hardly likely to be a standard unit marking. If the holster is WWI, there were no radio signals units at that time (I bellieve).He says that it�´s most likely the marking of an individual unit - maybe a courier. It certainly doesn�´t look like the type of sword symbol used by German forces.I would stick to the Mercury�´s winged staff idea and try to find where it fits. Patrick

[Robert Wiggins]

Patrick;


The Holster design appears to be of WWII design so I think we can rule out WWI. If you go to my "User Profile" you will note a link to my WEB site. I will post a full picture of the holster in the near future which should validate my WWII design thoughts.


Regards;