American Eagle Luger

[aldo35]

I have an AM Eagle with only 4 digit serial number. The frame and barrel have the same 4 digit number. All small parts have the last 2 digits in usual commercial patterns . The word Germany is on frame below serial number. The pistol has the 4.75" 30 cal barrel and dished toggles. Any idea what model Luger?

[aldo35]

I have been advised this is a 1900 model Luger. The 1900 serial numbers were 4 digits starting around 2100. This pistol number is in the 8000 range

[gunnertwo]

It has the toggle lock?

G2

[aldo35]

Hi,
Yes it has toggle lock. It has the flat spring extractor. 4 digit serial number and all matching parts to last 2 digits. Unmarked wood based mag. Thanks for asking

[gunbugs]

Like this one. (This one is a 5 digit gun, 15,000 range).

https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89566&stc=1&d=1740099040

https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89567&stc=1&d=1740099040

https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89568&stc=1&d=1740099040

[aldo35]

Mine looks like that. My gun's 4 digit serial number is in the 8000 range. Ron Wood told me that early 1900's had 4 digit starting at 2100. DMW didn't start 5 digit serial numbers till later. I double check. the date he gave me.

[aldo35]

Five digit serial numbers began with the 1902 Model these were 9mm, mine is 30cal.
That was incorrect, there were 5 digit serial number in the 1900 Model

[gunbugs]

The pistol in the photos is a 30 cal, with a 5 digit number. (Not uncommon, as a 5 digit serial number would indicate). A 1900 American Eagle it is, just slightly later production. 1902's were, indeed, 9mm. Just had a cherry fat barrel 9mm in my hands a couple of weeks ago. You could, of course, take some photos and post them.

[Ron Wood]

In your post on the other forum you asked if your Luger was a 1902, to which I replied that a 1902 would have a 5-digit serial number whereas your example has just four, therefore a model 1900. However, model 1900 Lugers were produced into the 5-digit range before 1902, the 5-digit serial numbers did not begin with the 1902 model. I was just trying to point out that your example could not be a 1902. A bit confusing, but Lugers and their history are fun to sort out.
Ron

[aldo35]

Hi All,
First, I want to apologize for my 90 yr old eyes the serial # is 8293 not in the 4000 range as I previously mentioned. I don't have the foggiest where that # came from, nothing even close in my collection.
OK here are a few pics, as you can tell they are not my strong suit.
Joe:

[Doubs]

Your 1900 Luger would have been among the last made with the bright safety marking and the checkered safety lever. Gortz & Sturgess show serial number 8592 with "GESICHERT" and the newer grooved safety lever. The changes apparently came within the 300 numbers following yours.

Maybe Ron Wood can shed more light on this.

[sdmark777]

Doubs, I don't understand what you are saying about the safety marking changing from bare metal marking to gesichert? The checkered safety may have changed to the new grooved style, but the gesichert marking came way later, like after the 1906 model. Or did I misunderstand?

For example:
1)1900 AE with 5 digit serial # and late safety
2)1906 AE 9mm

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by sdmark777

Doubs, I don't understand what you are saying about the safety marking changing from bare metal marking to gesichert? The checkered safety may have changed to the new grooved style, but I thought the gesichert marking came way later, like after the 1906 model. Or did I misunderstand?

In the three volume set of red books by Gortz & Sturgess, on page 217 is a picture of serial number 8592 with "GESICHERT" in the lower position and with a grooved safety. So somewhere in the 300 numbers above your serial number it looks like they changed the safety and the marking.

[sdmark777]

OK. I don't have the Sturgess book, so I can not see what you are looking at. But, perhaps it has a picture of the new grooved safety on a much later luger (one with gesichert) for comparison with the old checkered safety on serial #8592. Maybe Sturgess was lazy and did not include a pic of of the grooved safety on a 1900 with bare metal marking as would be less confusing. I am guessing the pic of the grooved safety with GESICHERT is not from serial # 8592. I don't know when GESICHERT started to be marked on the frame, but to my knowledge GESICHERT was not used until at least sometime after 1906. Am I wrong about that?

[aldo35]

Hi,
Unfortunately this pistol has been touched up with, I am guessing, cold blue, to cover some worn .Perhaps the area under the safety was formerly shiny metal. I don't know and don't know what to do about cold blueing as it already detracts

Using a magnifying glass

The area under the safety is relieved, see picture #4, that I posted, but it has been cold blued. There doesn't appear the word "gesichert" was ever there.

Hope this helps
Aldo

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by sdmark777

OK. I don't have the Sturgess book, so I can not see what you are looking at. But, perhaps it has a picture of the new grooved safety on a much later luger (one with gesichert) for comparison with the old checkered safety on serial #8592. Maybe Sturgess was lazy and did not include a pic of of the grooved safety on a 1900 with bare metal marking as would be less confusing. I am guessing the pic of the grooved safety with GESICHERT is not from serial # 8592. I don't know when GESICHERT started to be marked on the frame, but to my knowledge GESICHERT was not used until at least sometime after 1906. Am I wrong about that?

Your model 1900 Luger is serial number 8293 and has the checkered safety lever and a bright polished safety marking. The model 1900 Luger in the G&S books is serial number 8592. At some unknown serial number between those two, a change was made to the design of the safety lever and "GESICHERT" added. I don't know how to say it any more clearly and this is my final word on the matter.

[gunbugs]

The 15,000 serial range 1900 I posted earlier has a grooved safety and an "in the white" safety marking. No Gesichert. I'm somewhat sure no 1900's were marked Gesichert. But I've been wrong before...

https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1740438393

[HerrKaiser]

Mine in the 15000 range is the same way, polished, no gesichert.

[sdmark777]

Doubs, I do not mean to offend you. I am only trying to clarify that the addition of the GESICHERT safety marking in production of the Luger, did not occur during production of model 1900's. The GESICHERT change in production did not occur until sometime after the introduction of the 1906 model. If 1900 AE ser# 8592 is actually marked with GESICHERT, then it is a variation and not a change in production. This is evidenced by the model 1900's with 5 digit serial numbers and even model 1906's, which came after 1900 AE Ser. # 8592, not having the GESICHERT marking. Luger books are full of mistakes, and a 3 volume set certainly has room for an error or oversight. My opinion is there are no 1900 models marked with GESICHERT. If there is such a variant, then I welcome more information in support of that.

[Doubs]

I can only go by what I see in G&S. They show three old model 1900 Lugers with "GESICHERT" on them; one in the lower position (8592) and two in the upper position. They were clearly marked at the factory and not a later modification. The serial numbers are 9903 and 10066b.

What I missed and is important is that 10066b is a prototype while the other two are 1902 field trial pistols so none of them were standard production pistols.