Himmler

wterrell · 11-03-2002, 06:47 PM

lugercollector · 11-03-2002, 07:13 PM

Hello Wes.....very impressive !!!!!what does the marking in the grip mean???what is the story behind this gun???it sure looks unusual....almost scary.....do you think its the real WW2 deal...I would love to know more about it...Peter....

Navy · 11-03-2002, 08:16 PM

All,

An interesting piece of fantasy work.

Someone spent a great deal of time an effort, probably at the behest of a G.I. to create this thing.

It is as bogus as a $300 Dollar bill with Klintons's picture and worth about as much as someone would pay for a pimped-up fake piece.

Strong opinion to follow.
Tom A. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Imperial Arms · 11-03-2002, 08:49 PM

NOT ANOTHER ONE!!

Tom, before you make your strong opinion of this bogus Luger or decide to 'open a can of worms' on the subject, I wish to talk to you about another 'Himmler' Luger. Accepting the fact that the shown Luger is a total fake, be careful if you make reference to another Himmler Luger. I shall send you a private e-mail.

Albert

Alain · 11-06-2002, 06:53 PM

Here is a pic I saved from I forgot where of another strange presentation Luger...

Rgds,

Alain

P.S: well I am not sure I managed to post the pic.
Is rennlist the path?

Edward Tinker · 11-06-2002, 07:17 PM

Alain, what was the name of the photo you tried to post?

Yes, the link would look like this:

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 06:56 PM

Guys,

Of course this is a fake "Himmler" Luger.

How do I know?

Because the name on it is "Adolf Hitler!"

And I'm just a beginner! ;-)

At first glance I thought that was my birthday present because of the date -- almost my birthday!

Kidding aside, I don't know it that thing is fake or not, but if gen-u-wine you would think such a piece would have been pictured in about a million books by now....

Except for the oak leaves around the barrel it's pretty tastefully done. Even the Hakenkreuzen are spinning the right way. With those white grips, this must have been done to match Hitlers all-white uniform seen in a photo of him with some schoolgirl "Maedchens."

The grip logo looks like an "h" -- for Hitler -- to me....

We need more info...

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 07:13 PM

Here is one very SUBJECTIVE reason why this gun "might" be a fake.

In translation Hitler's first name (Adolf) means "wolf" or "noble wolf" and his nick-name was "Wolf" or "Wolfie" to his inner circle.

I am familiar with Hitler's signature and he wrote the name Adolf in such a way that it looked like the word "wolf." He did that on purpose (just like he had his own special secret "Fuehrer" handshake).

While I have no doubt that whoever made this gun used an authentic signature as a guide, he slipped up because in doing the name "Adolf" he lost the "wolf" look on the name. I'm not joking about this either. The very first instant I saw the name that hit me. Hilter looks right, but Adolf -- no way.

A REAL Nazi era engraver doing such a special job would probably NOT have made this sort of blunder -- or it would have been KZ Lager time.

But a guy in Pakistan probably would make this mistake without realizing it....

Just my 2 cents.

This reminds me of my unpublished novel where there is a fake highly engraved Luger. In my novel the fake has the SS motif and it was supposed to have belonged to SS #2 Ernst Kaltenbrunner (Heydrich's sucessor), but this job would work as well....

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 07:28 PM

Also note that this piece has a serial number. I can't quit make it out....

However, it strikes me odd that Hitler's Personal Luger would have a run-of-the-mill serial number on it!

It makes it look cheap and crass and commercial -- not befitting of the Fuehrer of the Drittes Reich at the peak of his power.

Unless it were SN# 0000 or 0001 or 0088....

But I can't make it out.....

Brandon · 11-10-2002, 07:31 PM

Looks like s/n 5525 to me!

Brandon...

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 07:34 PM

So what does 7 Okt. (October) 1940 signify? -- besides "almost" my birthday.

Maybe the day France surrendered?

Just a guess without looking it up...

That would be good reason to make something like this.

Actually, with the N.S. love of Nazi "Volkisch" mythology and ornamentation you would expect that lots of pieces like this sort of thing would have been made. Although fancy ones like this would have been more to Goering's taste and not Hitler's, who by all accounts was a plain and simple guy (with big plans.)

Navy · 11-10-2002, 07:36 PM

This pistol is bogus crapola and there is nothing that will make it anything else. Hitler was known for preferring small automatics such as menz, Mauser M1910 and Walther PPK. I have knowledge of his PPK with the composite slide and frame. Trust me guys, this is a prize winner in sucker's paradise.

Tom A.
Who owns vonRibbentrop's Luger

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 09:33 PM

If fake, where was the foul deed done?

By some talented guy in Pakistan?

Good way to earn Yankee "Great Satan" dollars to fund another Jihad....

max2cam · 11-10-2002, 09:37 PM

If the SN # on this thing is 5525 like Brandon makes out, does that mean there's 5524 more in this Special N.S. Engraved Series out there?

One for each Nazi officer and each Nazi political leader down to Adolf's dog Blondi?

Max
Who Owns Popeye's Forced matched VOPO Luger (Popeye's because "It Yam What it Yam")

ichabod · 11-24-2002, 05:17 PM

WOW ! Well, I'm not a Luger expert but I am a Third Reich buff. I'll grant you that it is gaudy but I remember an artillery Luger pictured on this very forum with some flamboyant engraving. What strikes me as odd is what is not what's on the pistol but what is not. People who fake Nazi stuff usually throw in S.S. runes, death's heads and iron crosses but none appear here. The eagle pictured is associated with the army and the German word for army is "heer" ("h" in the wreath ?). Yes, I know about "wehrmact" being the Nazi term for army. Also, the oak leaves are covering the weapon are tied in closely with the army and the S.S. The font used in spelling out "7 okt 1940" certainly looks period (reminds me of lettering I've seen on the back of some party day badges) and the mag base and grips seem to have legitimate age. I question the "G.I. did it theory" 'cuz 1: G.I.'s circa 1947 made about $150 a month and were not likely to blow precious funds on engraving Hitler's hated name and regalia on a Luger that was worth about $18. 2: No German engraver post-1945 would have wanted to risk jail-time to please some twisted G.I.. I don't know if it's real but it was carefully thought out. Oh yeah ! France fell in June, 1940.

ichabod · 11-24-2002, 05:39 PM

7 Oct 1940 = Nazi Germany entering Romania.

11-03-2002, 06:47 PM	#1
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Himmler __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

11-06-2002, 07:17 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Alain, what was the name of the photo you tried to post? Yes, the link would look like this: __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-24-2002, 05:17 PM	#15
ichabod User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WOW ! Well, I'm not a Luger expert but I am a Third Reich buff. I'll grant you that it is gaudy but I remember an artillery Luger pictured on this very forum with some flamboyant engraving. What strikes me as odd is what is not what's on the pistol but what is not. People who fake Nazi stuff usually throw in S.S. runes, death's heads and iron crosses but none appear here. The eagle pictured is associated with the army and the German word for army is "heer" ("h" in the wreath ?). Yes, I know about "wehrmact" being the Nazi term for army. Also, the oak leaves are covering the weapon are tied in closely with the army and the S.S. The font used in spelling out "7 okt 1940" certainly looks period (reminds me of lettering I've seen on the back of some party day badges) and the mag base and grips seem to have legitimate age. I question the "G.I. did it theory" 'cuz 1: G.I.'s circa 1947 made about $150 a month and were not likely to blow precious funds on engraving Hitler's hated name and regalia on a Luger that was worth about $18. 2: No German engraver post-1945 would have wanted to risk jail-time to please some twisted G.I.. I don't know if it's real but it was carefully thought out. Oh yeah ! France fell in June, 1940. __________________ "No snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche." Haywood Yasumi

11-24-2002, 05:39 PM	#16
ichabod User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	7 Oct 1940 = Nazi Germany entering Romania. __________________ "No snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche." Haywood Yasumi

11-03-2002, 07:13 PM	#2
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Hello Wes.....very impressive !!!!!what does the marking in the grip mean???what is the story behind this gun???it sure looks unusual....almost scary.....do you think its the real WW2 deal...I would love to know more about it...Peter....

11-03-2002, 08:16 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, An interesting piece of fantasy work. Someone spent a great deal of time an effort, probably at the behest of a G.I. to create this thing. It is as bogus as a $300 Dollar bill with Klintons's picture and worth about as much as someone would pay for a pimped-up fake piece. Strong opinion to follow. Tom A. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-03-2002, 08:49 PM	#4
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	NOT ANOTHER ONE!! Tom, before you make your strong opinion of this bogus Luger or decide to 'open a can of worms' on the subject, I wish to talk to you about another 'Himmler' Luger. Accepting the fact that the shown Luger is a total fake, be careful if you make reference to another Himmler Luger. I shall send you a private e-mail. Albert

11-06-2002, 06:53 PM	#5
Alain Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: france Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is a pic I saved from I forgot where of another strange presentation Luger... Rgds, Alain P.S: well I am not sure I managed to post the pic. Is rennlist the path?

11-10-2002, 06:56 PM	#7
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, Of course this is a fake "Himmler" Luger. How do I know? Because the name on it is "Adolf Hitler!" And I'm just a beginner! ;-) At first glance I thought that was my birthday present because of the date -- almost my birthday! Kidding aside, I don't know it that thing is fake or not, but if gen-u-wine you would think such a piece would have been pictured in about a million books by now.... Except for the oak leaves around the barrel it's pretty tastefully done. Even the Hakenkreuzen are spinning the right way. With those white grips, this must have been done to match Hitlers all-white uniform seen in a photo of him with some schoolgirl "Maedchens." The grip logo looks like an "h" -- for Hitler -- to me.... We need more info...

11-10-2002, 07:13 PM	#8
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is one very SUBJECTIVE reason why this gun "might" be a fake. In translation Hitler's first name (Adolf) means "wolf" or "noble wolf" and his nick-name was "Wolf" or "Wolfie" to his inner circle. I am familiar with Hitler's signature and he wrote the name Adolf in such a way that it looked like the word "wolf." He did that on purpose (just like he had his own special secret "Fuehrer" handshake). While I have no doubt that whoever made this gun used an authentic signature as a guide, he slipped up because in doing the name "Adolf" he lost the "wolf" look on the name. I'm not joking about this either. The very first instant I saw the name that hit me. Hilter looks right, but Adolf -- no way. A REAL Nazi era engraver doing such a special job would probably NOT have made this sort of blunder -- or it would have been KZ Lager time. But a guy in Pakistan probably would make this mistake without realizing it.... Just my 2 cents. This reminds me of my unpublished novel where there is a fake highly engraved Luger. In my novel the fake has the SS motif and it was supposed to have belonged to SS #2 Ernst Kaltenbrunner (Heydrich's sucessor), but this job would work as well....

11-10-2002, 07:28 PM	#9
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also note that this piece has a serial number. I can't quit make it out.... However, it strikes me odd that Hitler's Personal Luger would have a run-of-the-mill serial number on it! It makes it look cheap and crass and commercial -- not befitting of the Fuehrer of the Drittes Reich at the peak of his power. Unless it were SN# 0000 or 0001 or 0088.... But I can't make it out.....

11-10-2002, 07:31 PM	#10
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looks like s/n 5525 to me! Brandon...

11-10-2002, 07:34 PM	#11
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So what does 7 Okt. (October) 1940 signify? -- besides "almost" my birthday. Maybe the day France surrendered? Just a guess without looking it up... That would be good reason to make something like this. Actually, with the N.S. love of Nazi "Volkisch" mythology and ornamentation you would expect that lots of pieces like this sort of thing would have been made. Although fancy ones like this would have been more to Goering's taste and not Hitler's, who by all accounts was a plain and simple guy (with big plans.)

11-10-2002, 07:36 PM	#12
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	This pistol is bogus crapola and there is nothing that will make it anything else. Hitler was known for preferring small automatics such as menz, Mauser M1910 and Walther PPK. I have knowledge of his PPK with the composite slide and frame. Trust me guys, this is a prize winner in sucker's paradise. Tom A. Who owns vonRibbentrop's Luger

11-10-2002, 09:33 PM	#13
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If fake, where was the foul deed done? By some talented guy in Pakistan? Good way to earn Yankee "Great Satan" dollars to fund another Jihad....

11-10-2002, 09:37 PM	#14
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If the SN # on this thing is 5525 like Brandon makes out, does that mean there's 5524 more in this Special N.S. Engraved Series out there? One for each Nazi officer and each Nazi political leader down to Adolf's dog Blondi? Max Who Owns Popeye's Forced matched VOPO Luger (Popeye's because "It Yam What it Yam")