Colt 1911 Commercial & pre-Woodsman

SteveM · 09-01-2018, 08:57 AM

Lugers have been pretty sparse around here lately and the only ones that do appear are mixmasters that bring ridiculous prices. I've been getting older S&W pistols, mostly j frames, for the time being or an occasional Colt. Stopped at my lgs the other day and my good buddy brought these out from the back to see if I was interested before he put them out for sale. It's good to have friends at the lgs.

This was made in 1923 and appears to be correct in every way. The finish could be better but the way I look at it is I know that it is original. When you go looking for these it seems all you see are perfect to near perfect examples. It's ugly but it is tight and the bore is nice as well. The finish on these from what I have read is somewhat fragile and it doesn't take much for them to end up as this one has. It looks like in some areas the blue just peeled right off. There is absolutely no pitting anywhere, the gripstraps are brown which shows it was handled quite a bit. The mags are correct from what I can see, no markings anywhere. My LGS had just gotten this one in and I got to check it out before it went out for sale. I had them put it back for me on layaway as well as the pre-woodsman that came in with it.

OK, I've been chewin' on this for a while and kicking myself for selling my Clawson book on the 1911 Commercial Models a few years ago. Dang it! Then I remembered that I also have the book by Goddard "The Government Models". Let's see if there is anything about this era of Commercial models in this book. Goddard didn't touch on the Commercial models but he does list several pages of serial numbers, ship dates, and receiving parties. I started looking, found my range and to my surprise found this serial number listed. It shipped on Sept. 12 1923 to a Post Exchange, Lt. O.K. Robbins. Goddards nomenclature for shipping shows that if it has 2 names it means delivery to the first for delivery to the second. I now have a name and will have to have my LGS ask the lady that brought both of these in if Lt. Robbins was her or her husbands Grandfather or Great Grandfather. I'm betting that this is the case and also betting that the pre-Woodsman was delivered at the same time as the 1911. If this happens to be it is a shame that these family guns' history have ended in the way they did.

WG dog · 09-01-2018, 09:29 AM

Wonderful old pistols. Any flaws are just beauty marks.

Douglas Jr. · 09-01-2018, 05:30 PM

These are great finds indeed.
I would have grab those in a blink. Some TLC can do a lot in cases like these, as my experience said.
Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

PS - I don't want to hijack your topic but ould you mind to check Government Model serial number C130554 in your book for me?

SteveM · 09-01-2018, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Jr.

These are great finds indeed.
I would have grab those in a blink. Some TLC can do a lot in cases like these, as my experience said.
Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

PS - I don't want to hijack your topic but ould you mind to check Government Model serial number C130554 in your book for me?

Thanks for the comments on the 2 Colts. I think they will clean up nicely.

Your C130554 does appear in the book. I think you'll find this interesting.

C124404 - C131885, 500 pistols in this group, to Lloyd Brasilero, New York, Minister of Marine, Govt. of Brazil. March 26 1922.

Douglas Jr. · 09-01-2018, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Thanks for the comments on the 2 Colts. I think they will clean up nicely.

Your C130554 does appear in the book. I think you'll find this interesting.

C124404 - C131885, 500 pistols in this group, to Lloyd Brasilero, New York, Minister of Marine, Govt. of Brazil. March 26 1922.

Many thanks Steve!
I have a volunteer double function in the State of São Paulo Police Museum (Brazil) as a Legal advisor and Firearms Curator.

One of the guns that we have in our Collection is this Government Model. According to Clawson's book it was to be part of a group of pistols assigned to Brazilian Battleship "Minas Geraes". The information you provided makes sense in this context. I am beginning to think in an article about this, made to be published in USA.

SteveM · 09-02-2018, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Jr.

Many thanks Steve!
I have a volunteer double function in the State of São Paulo Police Museum (Brazil) as a Legal advisor and Firearms Curator.

One of the guns that we have in our Collection is this Government Model. According to Clawson's book it was to be part of a group of pistols assigned to Brazilian Battleship "Minas Geraes". The information you provided makes sense in this context. I am beginning to think in an article about this, made to be published in USA.

Your most welcome! Collecting weapons becomes most interesting when you can actually get some history on them.

Rick W. · 09-02-2018, 03:17 PM

That man's collection was quite extensive and exclusive by our standards today. One would suspect he just bought at the time with some thought about quality etc.

His collection was quite astounding, you are lucky to acquire part of it; and it is lucky to have found a good home.

jl7422 · 09-05-2018, 03:48 PM

Very nice pieces Steve. I have a real affinity of both of those models and especially when they display honest wear.

I echo your comment about only seeing perfect or near perfect vintage 1911s these days. At the recent big Reno show there were just too many "mint" pieces being offered at mint prices. Very hard for me to believe a WW1 G.I. piece is unissued mint. . . especially when you see several sprinkled around the show floor.

09-01-2018, 08:57 AM	#1
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Colt 1911 Commercial & pre-Woodsman Lugers have been pretty sparse around here lately and the only ones that do appear are mixmasters that bring ridiculous prices. I've been getting older S&W pistols, mostly j frames, for the time being or an occasional Colt. Stopped at my lgs the other day and my good buddy brought these out from the back to see if I was interested before he put them out for sale. It's good to have friends at the lgs. This was made in 1923 and appears to be correct in every way. The finish could be better but the way I look at it is I know that it is original. When you go looking for these it seems all you see are perfect to near perfect examples. It's ugly but it is tight and the bore is nice as well. The finish on these from what I have read is somewhat fragile and it doesn't take much for them to end up as this one has. It looks like in some areas the blue just peeled right off. There is absolutely no pitting anywhere, the gripstraps are brown which shows it was handled quite a bit. The mags are correct from what I can see, no markings anywhere. My LGS had just gotten this one in and I got to check it out before it went out for sale. I had them put it back for me on layaway as well as the pre-woodsman that came in with it. OK, I've been chewin' on this for a while and kicking myself for selling my Clawson book on the 1911 Commercial Models a few years ago. Dang it! Then I remembered that I also have the book by Goddard "The Government Models". Let's see if there is anything about this era of Commercial models in this book. Goddard didn't touch on the Commercial models but he does list several pages of serial numbers, ship dates, and receiving parties. I started looking, found my range and to my surprise found this serial number listed. It shipped on Sept. 12 1923 to a Post Exchange, Lt. O.K. Robbins. Goddards nomenclature for shipping shows that if it has 2 names it means delivery to the first for delivery to the second. I now have a name and will have to have my LGS ask the lady that brought both of these in if Lt. Robbins was her or her husbands Grandfather or Great Grandfather. I'm betting that this is the case and also betting that the pre-Woodsman was delivered at the same time as the 1911. If this happens to be it is a shame that these family guns' history have ended in the way they did.

09-01-2018, 09:29 AM	#2
WG dog Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 142 Thanks: 1,282 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Wonderful old pistols. Any flaws are just beauty marks.

09-01-2018, 05:30 PM	#3
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	These are great finds indeed. I would have grab those in a blink. Some TLC can do a lot in cases like these, as my experience said. Congratulations and thanks for sharing. PS - I don't want to hijack your topic but ould you mind to check Government Model serial number C130554 in your book for me?

09-02-2018, 03:17 PM	#7
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	That man's collection was quite extensive and exclusive by our standards today. One would suspect he just bought at the time with some thought about quality etc. His collection was quite astounding, you are lucky to acquire part of it; and it is lucky to have found a good home.

09-05-2018, 03:48 PM	#8
jl7422 User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Very nice pieces Steve. I have a real affinity of both of those models and especially when they display honest wear. I echo your comment about only seeing perfect or near perfect vintage 1911s these days. At the recent big Reno show there were just too many "mint" pieces being offered at mint prices. Very hard for me to believe a WW1 G.I. piece is unissued mint. . . especially when you see several sprinkled around the show floor.