Damaged frame

[Leendert1988]

Hello forum members.

I own an p08 BYF 41 and noticed that there is some damage on the back of the gun. Could anyone tell me if this is normal wear or needs to be repaired?

Thanks in advance.

[ithacaartist]

That is damage likely from using loads that were too powerful. The springs may also be too weak to prevent this. Check for cracks in the frame, firing pin spring guide, and breech block. Do the tape test to see if 115 gr. FMF results in mangled tape. But if all seems sound (although a little marked up) it should be able to handle regular ammo--NOT +P, +P+, or NATO if the recoil spring checks out.

[DonVoigt]

Sound advice above about checking it out.

It does not look too bad; and it cannot be "repaired" anyway.

Use it with "regular" velocity ammo, and keep watch on the inside.

Take a picture of the back of the bolt and the ramp curves of the ears and post them for reference too.

[Leendert1988]

Thank you for the replies. I have never used any loads that were to powerful in my gun. Because I have always been very afraid to damage the gun. I started out with Magtech 115 grain and Geco 124 grain. At the moment I use American eagle that is made for use with a gun that has a silencer attached to it. The specs are:

Grain Weight 124 Grains
Muzzle Velocity 1030 Feet Per Second
Muzzle Energy 292 Foot Pounds

I have not yet changed the main spring, because the gun functions very well. But it does feel less strong that the one in the p08 of a friend of mine. Do you have any suggestions for a good manufacturer of a new main spring?

I`ll post the suggested photo`s today.

[Sieger]

Hi,

Who knows what may have been shot through this pistol over the last 70 plus years!

Your photos show signs of extremly hot ammo usage.

Consistent usage of overly hot ammo will cause a Luger to eventually fail!!


Sieger

[DavidJayUden]

"At the moment I use American eagle that is made for use with a gun that has a silencer attached to it. The specs are:

Grain Weight 124 Grains
Muzzle Velocity 1030 Fs
Feet Per Second
Muzzle Energy 292 Foot Pounds

While these numbers look OK, the idea that your current ammo is intended for use with a suppressor concerns me as the most common way to slow the bullet to subsonic is to use a heavy bullet. Double-check that bullet weight.
dju

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Who knows what may have been shot through this pistol over the last 70 plus years!

Your photos show signs of extreme hot ammo usage.

Consistent usage of overly hot ammo will cause a Luger to eventually fail!!


Sieger

I agree that "hot" ammo is not to be used.

However, that degree of wear is not "proof" that hot ammo has been used; a lot of "normal" rounds will cause the same degree of wear, as will a weak main spring. JMHO.

[mrerick]

Wolfe GunSprings makes a kit with a number of different weight Luger recoil springs.

https://www.gunsprings.com/

It would be worth trying the masking tape test (put masking tape in the area where the rear of the toggle train impacts the rear of the outside of the frame, just above the lanyard ring area) to see how hard the action is slapping the frame during recoil. Look for how heavily the masking tape gets marked and compressed.

The FAQ document (available through the link at the top of every forum page) had a table of spring weights in terms of number of turns and gauge of coil steel. There were a range of strengths used over the life of Luger manufacturing as well as differences between springs used for the .30 Luger and 9mm Luger rounds.

Never use a 9mm load marked "NATO". This is higher than normal. My preference is 115gn standard velocity and available from a number of manufacturers. Winchester likely uses their 231 pistol powder (HP-38) so similar burn characteristics are desirable.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I agree that "hot" ammo is not to be used.

However, that degree of wear is not "proof" that hot ammo has been used; a lot of "normal" rounds will cause the same degree of wear, as will a weak main spring. JMHO.

Hi,

"Normal" for a 9MM Luger is 123 grain bullet at 1,076 fps.

Breach block slap of the magnitude shown is not normal for the original load, as breach block slap against the internal frame abutment (as shown in the photo) was minimal, if any..

The aforementioned tape test does not measure the slap of the breach block against the internal frame abutment, which can easily be felt as a sharp pain in the firing hand.

Hope this helps.

Sieger

[DonVoigt]

I should have said firing "many" normal rounds, instead of a lot; especially with a weak or too short mainspring.

[G.T.]

I recently had a customer that needed a new breechblock in a WW1 Erfurt. I installed the breechblock and out to the range we went.. The Luger worked well, but felt weird and was very erratic on ejection? But, it worked so out the door it went. A few days later the fellow said, after about 100 rounds, he broke a rear toggle pin and needed a new one, so I installed it and queried as to how this might happen? He then informed me this was the SECOND rear toggle pin he had broken in this very same Erfurt, along now with a breechblock?........ I said, OK, that's enough for me, lets dig into this old war horse and see what gives... Upon disassembly, I found a mainspring for a .30 had been installed long ago.. and you could see some evidence of it all hammering back onto the coupling link and associated reliefs in the rear toggle link and frame... New old stock 1916 DWM 9mm mainspring and the unit now runs as new!!! Another Luger lesson learned the hard way.. And I take nothing for granted on these old beasts! Not all of them set in dresser drawers their whole life.. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I should have said firing "many" normal rounds, instead of a lot; especially with a weak or too short mainspring.

Hi Again,

Firing infinite normal rounds with proper springs should equal zero breach block slap.


Sieger