RC BYF41 Question

Wilhelm · 10-22-2016, 02:51 PM

Hey guys. I don't post here very often but I know you can help me. I didn't see anywhere else to post this and it's not an East German rework so I figured I should put it here. Anywho, I'm looking at a Russian Capture BYF41. It's all matching (as in even the toggle axle, extractor and striker) except for the sideplate which was force matched. None of the markings were peened and no new ones were added. It still has the original barrel too (some frosting but solid) with a faint import stamp on the bottom. The entire pistol is the typical eastern european dip reblue which changed the ejector and some other bits a slight plum. The magazine is a bakelite bottom (looks like a real bottom and not a repro to me) FXO37 and, while I'm sure the pistol probably had the ribbed Russian grips when it originally came into the country, it now has resin reproductions of the original bakelite type. I've seen Russian captures before that were all matching except for the side plate that were reblued and I'm certain that's what this one is. The import stamp is in the white so I know it hasn't been refinished here. Dude wants $1000 for it. I think that's a fair price but you all would know far more than I do. I like my East German lugers but have been out of the loop for a while. I'm sure this would be a good shooter since it's matching. Yea or nay at 1K? Thanks!

kurusu · 10-22-2016, 03:50 PM

Pictures would help us help you.

Wilhelm · 10-22-2016, 03:56 PM

Yes, I know. Unfortunately, I didn't take any. Assume no pitting and no grinding anywhere. Just a nice unblemished specimen that was Russian dip blued and went from shiny to dull.

DonVoigt · 10-22-2016, 04:46 PM

Right ballpark, I'd offer $800 and go up if I had to.

Wilhelm · 11-01-2016, 09:37 PM

Well, I decided to buy it. I like to shoot my stuff so this provides me with an almost matching example I can enjoy at the range without fear of destroying a valuable pistol. The magazine has a real bakelite bottom so I assume it's original. As stated, someone replaced the grips Russian with resin repros unfortunately. Surprisingly, there is no RC "X" to be found but I know the reblue must have been done by them or, at least somewhere in Eastern Europe because of the crude import mark in the white. As far as I can tell, other than the alredy mentioned repro grips, remarked commercial side plate and the WWI grip screw, everything else appears to be matching to when it was made in 1941. Ivan doesn't seem to have gone crazy with the buffing either because most of the markings and edges are crisp. But I'm no expert by a million miles so please tell me if I am wrong about my assumptions please. I plan on doing a write-up on some non Luger forums (you guys already know all this stuff ) called "Anatomy of a Russian Rework P08" or something along those lines so I would like to get my facts straight before I start. So, thank you in advance! Here are a BUNCH of pictures for your perusal:

kurusu · 11-02-2016, 03:00 AM

Looks great, I'm not so sure it was refinished.

Should be an excellent shooter. That's my favorite grade, late Mauser almost matching.

Is that striker fluted? Can't tell from that angle, if it's not it's not original to the pistol and should be replaced with a fluted one before shooting.

Wilhelm · 11-02-2016, 05:02 AM

It is fluted.

SteveM · 11-02-2016, 07:27 AM

The sideplate was originally for a commercial. Importer was Century.

mrerick · 11-02-2016, 08:14 AM

It's a nice one. Congratulations and good choice.

I also like these later Mauser made Lugers as shooters.

Marc

alanint · 11-02-2016, 10:07 AM

I remember the Coconut Grove gun shows back in the 1980s,90s. The Miami importer of these pistols had crates of them on his tables. and I do mean CRATES!

It was fun to be able to examine 50-60 pistols in one sitting, trying to find something that stood above the rest before purchase. He was getting $299 for them then.

Edward Tinker · 11-02-2016, 10:17 AM

It was a little high for a shooter, but a nice WW2 shooter is about that.

PM sent

Ed

Eugen · 11-02-2016, 10:37 AM

That is a beautiful and unusual Luger and IMHO a reasonable price. I am sure you will enjoy it.

Wilhelm · 11-02-2016, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I remember the Coconut Grove gun shows back in the 1980s,90s. The Miami importer of these pistols had crates of them on his tables. and I do mean CRATES!

It was fun to be able to examine 50-60 pistols in one sitting, trying to find something that stood above the rest before purchase. He was getting $299 for them then.

Do you remember where he imported them from? I know it's not East German and the lack of an X makes me question Russian. It's too bad the grips were replaced after import. They would definitely tell whether or not it was Russian.

Also, do you know who GAI was/is? I know it looks like "CAI", which would be century but I think it's GAI. Also, century never imported through Florida to my knowledge.

SteveM · 11-02-2016, 04:56 PM

Why do you think it isn't EG?

kurusu · 11-02-2016, 06:12 PM

Wilhelm,

The striker contact area with the sear bar is in dire need of cleaning. And a little (very little) dab of molykote grease.

Wilhelm · 11-02-2016, 06:57 PM

Lol. Agreed. The entire pistol is in need of a good cleaning and lube prior to use. I just took it apart and photographed it. There is grit and what appears to be grease in many of the nooks and crannies.

Ron Wood · 11-02-2016, 07:16 PM

I think you made a pretty decent buy. I wouldn't mind having that Crown/S grip screw although the rest of the gun is a little outside my collecting area.

Ron

John Sabato · 11-03-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Also, do you know who GAI was/is? I know it looks like "CAI", which would be century but I think it's GAI. Also, century never imported through Florida to my knowledge.

From the Miami business listings:

Gai Imports, Inc (inactive)

2301 Nw 33Rd Ct, Pompano Beach, FL 33069

Registration:
Oct 21, 1993

State ID:
F93000004782

Business type:
Foreign for Profit Corporation

Members (3):
Steven Lee (Director, inactive)
Rami Naar (President, Director, inactive)
Philip E. Reinle (Chairman, Director, Secretary, inactive)

Agent:
Corporation Information Services, Inc

mrerick · 11-03-2016, 01:02 PM

Other searches online found references to this company importing guns in the year 2000 through 2004. A variety of models were apparently imported including Lugers. The references imply that they were importing guns from Eastern Europe. Could have been East Germany, the Ukraine or Russia. I'm not sure every captured gun got the "X" or got dipped.

The sharp edges and appearance of surfaces in your photos makes me doubt that this gun was refinished.

Consider trading with Ron for unmarked Mauser era grip screws. The one in there is from a WW-I Erfurt IIRC.

It will be hard to completely match the side plate. Mauser plates were numbered inside and out to correspond with all the digits of the serial number (one in 10,000 plate numbers will match properly). It looks like the replacement trigger side plate, grips and the grip screw are the only parts not originally on the pistol when it left Oberndorf...

The advanced metallurgy of these later Mauser Lugers make them excellent shooters.

Marc

10-22-2016, 02:51 PM	#1
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	RC BYF41 Question Hey guys. I don't post here very often but I know you can help me. I didn't see anywhere else to post this and it's not an East German rework so I figured I should put it here. Anywho, I'm looking at a Russian Capture BYF41. It's all matching (as in even the toggle axle, extractor and striker) except for the sideplate which was force matched. None of the markings were peened and no new ones were added. It still has the original barrel too (some frosting but solid) with a faint import stamp on the bottom. The entire pistol is the typical eastern european dip reblue which changed the ejector and some other bits a slight plum. The magazine is a bakelite bottom (looks like a real bottom and not a repro to me) FXO37 and, while I'm sure the pistol probably had the ribbed Russian grips when it originally came into the country, it now has resin reproductions of the original bakelite type. I've seen Russian captures before that were all matching except for the side plate that were reblued and I'm certain that's what this one is. The import stamp is in the white so I know it hasn't been refinished here. Dude wants $1000 for it. I think that's a fair price but you all would know far more than I do. I like my East German lugers but have been out of the loop for a while. I'm sure this would be a good shooter since it's matching. Yea or nay at 1K? Thanks! __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-22-2016, 03:56 PM	#3
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Yes, I know. Unfortunately, I didn't take any. Assume no pitting and no grinding anywhere. Just a nice unblemished specimen that was Russian dip blued and went from shiny to dull. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-22-2016, 04:46 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Right ballpark, I'd offer $800 and go up if I had to. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

11-01-2016, 09:37 PM	#5
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Well, I decided to buy it. I like to shoot my stuff so this provides me with an almost matching example I can enjoy at the range without fear of destroying a valuable pistol. The magazine has a real bakelite bottom so I assume it's original. As stated, someone replaced the grips Russian with resin repros unfortunately. Surprisingly, there is no RC "X" to be found but I know the reblue must have been done by them or, at least somewhere in Eastern Europe because of the crude import mark in the white. As far as I can tell, other than the alredy mentioned repro grips, remarked commercial side plate and the WWI grip screw, everything else appears to be matching to when it was made in 1941. Ivan doesn't seem to have gone crazy with the buffing either because most of the markings and edges are crisp. But I'm no expert by a million miles so please tell me if I am wrong about my assumptions please. I plan on doing a write-up on some non Luger forums (you guys already know all this stuff ) called "Anatomy of a Russian Rework P08" or something along those lines so I would like to get my facts straight before I start. So, thank you in advance! Here are a BUNCH of pictures for your perusal: __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

11-02-2016, 05:02 AM	#7
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	It is fluted. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-22-2016, 03:50 PM	#2
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	Pictures would help us help you.

11-02-2016, 03:00 AM	#6
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	Looks great, I'm not so sure it was refinished. Should be an excellent shooter. That's my favorite grade, late Mauser almost matching. Is that striker fluted? Can't tell from that angle, if it's not it's not original to the pistol and should be replaced with a fluted one before shooting.

11-02-2016, 07:27 AM	#8
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	The sideplate was originally for a commercial. Importer was Century.

11-02-2016, 08:14 AM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	It's a nice one. Congratulations and good choice. I also like these later Mauser made Lugers as shooters. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-02-2016, 10:07 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I remember the Coconut Grove gun shows back in the 1980s,90s. The Miami importer of these pistols had crates of them on his tables. and I do mean CRATES! It was fun to be able to examine 50-60 pistols in one sitting, trying to find something that stood above the rest before purchase. He was getting $299 for them then.

11-02-2016, 10:17 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	It was a little high for a shooter, but a nice WW2 shooter is about that. PM sent Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-02-2016, 10:37 AM	#12
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 793 Thanks: 400 Thanked 634 Times in 336 Posts	That is a beautiful and unusual Luger and IMHO a reasonable price. I am sure you will enjoy it. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

11-02-2016, 04:56 PM	#14
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Why do you think it isn't EG?

11-02-2016, 06:12 PM	#15
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	Wilhelm, The striker contact area with the sear bar is in dire need of cleaning. And a little (very little) dab of molykote grease.

11-02-2016, 06:57 PM	#16
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Lol. Agreed. The entire pistol is in need of a good cleaning and lube prior to use. I just took it apart and photographed it. There is grit and what appears to be grease in many of the nooks and crannies. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

11-02-2016, 07:16 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	I think you made a pretty decent buy. I wouldn't mind having that Crown/S grip screw although the rest of the gun is a little outside my collecting area. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-03-2016, 01:02 PM	#19
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Other searches online found references to this company importing guns in the year 2000 through 2004. A variety of models were apparently imported including Lugers. The references imply that they were importing guns from Eastern Europe. Could have been East Germany, the Ukraine or Russia. I'm not sure every captured gun got the "X" or got dipped. The sharp edges and appearance of surfaces in your photos makes me doubt that this gun was refinished. Consider trading with Ron for unmarked Mauser era grip screws. The one in there is from a WW-I Erfurt IIRC. It will be hard to completely match the side plate. Mauser plates were numbered inside and out to correspond with all the digits of the serial number (one in 10,000 plate numbers will match properly). It looks like the replacement trigger side plate, grips and the grip screw are the only parts not originally on the pistol when it left Oberndorf... The advanced metallurgy of these later Mauser Lugers make them excellent shooters. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.