Luger Carbine Front Sight Question

[sheepherder]

Could be either 1902 or 1920 style carbine...Or even Eugene's carbines...

On the front sight ramp...How is the rear of the ramp machined...Is it 'stepped' or 'notched'???

Does a side view look like a stairway or a saw blade???

[Ron Wood]

I guess you would say it is notched...it is a straight ramp with crossing grooves, kind of like some ribs on shotgun barrels...neither a stairway or saw blade.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I guess you would say it is notched...it is a straight ramp with crossing grooves, kind of like some ribs on shotgun barrels...neither a stairway or saw blade.

Would they be V shaped grooves??? Or squared off U shaped grooves???

Shoot...Either of those shapes, I don't have a tool to cut grooves in a ramp...Steps maybe, but not grooves...If I had a shaper, that would be ideal...But I don't...

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Would they be V shaped grooves??? Or squared off U shaped grooves???

Shoot...Either of those shapes, I don't have a tool to cut grooves in a ramp...Steps maybe, but not grooves...If I had a shaper, that would be ideal...But I don't...

Why not grind a keyway cutter to the dimension you want?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Why not grind a keyway cutter to the dimension you want?

I have a 60º V-shaped keyway cutter, but I don't have any way to clamp the [integral] sight base/ramp to mill it...[pic]...

I also have squared-edge slitting saws if I wanted a thin square serrated bottom series of grooves, but same clamping problem...

I've held off milling the ramp angle until I know how I'll serrate it...

... ...

I suppose I could turn the ramp instead of milling it...and turn/serrate it with a threading bit...Like the Finnish Luger barrels...

Nah...

[sheepherder]

Several years ago [70's?...80's?] I did a 6" 9mm barrel with pressed in 3/8" dovetailed front sight (too wide but only cutter I had) and milled 'steps' in the back of the sight & ramp...Something like .020" up, .030" forward...Repeat...But that won't work on a long ramp...

Back then I had a decent mill [Bridgeport 2J] and it was easy...

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Shoot...Either of those shapes, I don't have a tool to cut grooves in a ramp...Steps maybe, but not grooves...If I had a shaper, that would be ideal...But I don't...

I can think of several ways you might do this...

You can simulate a shaper action using a milling vise clamped to the bed of your lathe and an appropriately shaped cutting bit using the automatic feed of the lead screw. It would take a long time, since manual feeding of the cutting tool would be required for each cut, but it is doable... Similar to the way you would cut an inside diameter keyway using only a lathe... I hope that is clear enough...

OR... you could make a hardened jig to clamp on the front sight base and use a small triangular Swiss needle file (or fine tooth metal saw) to make each "step"... I know it would be a long process, but hey... you are doing this for fun right?

[cirelaw]

Model 1920~ I really commend you for your expertise and devotion~

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

You can simulate a shaper action using a milling vise clamped to the bed of your lathe and an appropriately shaped cutting bit using the automatic feed of the lead screw. It would take a long time, since manual feeding of the cutting tool would be required for each cut.

That is interesting, and I will file that away for future reference...Thank you!

OR... you could...use a small triangular Swiss needle file (or fine tooth metal saw) to make each "step"...

I guess you mean the groove/serration, not step, since cutting a squared step is a lot easier, but no, I'm not doing filing...

What I'm thinking now is to use a 4" long threaded M16 barrel chunk to hold the base/ramp upright in my vise and mill the grooves with the 60º keyway cutter...It'll be sharp points top & bottom, but I should be able to level & square the base/ramp and cut it...

Something like this, but with vise turned 90º and the ramp angled 180º straight up (after it is cut)...Possibly...

Or, if the front 'ramp' (ahead of the sight base w/dovetail) is wide enough, and the rear [serrated] ramp is short & low enough, possibly I can mill 'steps' like the P08...It's odd that the barrel/sight blueprint doesn't show measurements for the ramp serrations...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Model 1920~

Thank You, Eric! That is a lot longer ramp than I had thought carbines had...Hard to tell from the side view if V or U shaped grooves...

I think I'll experiment on a piece of scrap and see how the 'steps' look. I still need to cut down the top of the sight base about .200" and figure out how high a sight blade I want...The ramp might only be ~3/4" long and ~.200" high...Steps might work, and look a lot better than V grooves...

[cirelaw]

Foward sight two and a half inches~Overall 16'~~

[John Sabato]

Rich,

If you have never visited http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/ , I highly recommend it. The site is owned by Frank Ford, a master Luthier... (A luthier (/ˈluːtiər/ LOO-ti-ər) is someone who builds or repairs string instruments generally consisting of a neck and a sound box.) and his homemade machines and shop projects are worth the visit.

Here is a photo of his lathe mounted slotting device that could be the basis of your sight ramp "step groover"

[cirelaw]

John, These are the real HEROS! Thank You!!

[RichSr]

No Eric, these are the real "Master Craftsmen". The REAL Heroes are those generally wearing a uniform who unselfishly devote themselves to protecting others at the risk their own lives. Willing to trade all of their tomorrows for the sake of their countrymen. I too respect these craftsmen for the fine work they turn out, but IMHO the term "Hero" should be used more sparingly so as not to diminish the sacrifices made by those truly deserving the title.

[cirelaw]

I agree, There are many heros and those in the Military are many of the finest. My dad was also my hero!