Book of Luger, C-96 values

[siegersallee]

I keep hearing folks speak of a book that they use to guess-timate luger and C-96 values.

This book is suppose to give value based upon condition, number of units manufactured, and numbers thought to be still around today.

Does anyone know what book this is?

Thanks,
Richard

[alvin]

Erickson and Pate gave a "C96 rarity guide", it reflects collector-grade C96 market availability reasonable well. For example, if a standard wartime made 7,63mm C96 is $1000 (rarity=1), then 20-shot conehammer in similar condition is $20,000 (rarity=20), and carbine in similar condition is $15,000 (15x), 6-shot conehammer is $10,000 (rarity=10), etc. That estimation is reasonably accurate reflecting US market well.

[CAP Black]

Does anyone understand that example?
Alvin can expand upon that method and concept, please.
Jack

[Edward Tinker]

I have a few score of luger books - a few have values, but I generally don't trust them, they are too low or too high.

Reese had a value guide
Aaron Davis has value in his books
Blue book has values

I think you have to give more info on what you have heard; but personally I would go by values I see at gunbroker (sold items) - probably not Rock Island as they are usually poorly written and either too high or too low

Look at retail sites like Simpson's LTD but figure 30-40% less for collector to collector selling

[Sergio Natali]

I look at Simpson's just to have a rough idea, then I compare it with other sites.

Sergio

[alvin]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

Does anyone understand that example?
Alvin can expand upon that method and concept, please.
Jack

The E&P chart is copied below. It reflects the relative scarcity of different C96 variations. Variations with scarcity of 1 and 1.5 are common; variations with scarcity of 2 to 4 are scarce; and variations with scarcity above 4 are rare.

E&P chart did not list a few variations. Turkish Conehammer scarcity is 10. Factory engraved C96 is 25. etc. Genuine Shansei .45ACP is 4. Post 1980 reproduction Shansei .45ACP is 1.5 (so we see them for sale every month on gunbroker.com).

Using regular Flatside as an example. If a condition 96% flatside is $3500, then a 96% wartime 7,63mm C96 is $1400 (divided by flatside scarcity factor 2.5). 96% Red 9 is $2100 -- many collectors collect this variation due to it's German military and 9mm being a popular caliber among collectors, so there is a premium over Red 9's scarcity.

[alvin]

Using Flatside 20-shot sold via RIAC two days ago as another example, total cost was $51750. It has matching stock, that's a big factor, which brings in extra 40% - 100% to the gun. Let's go to the extreme and count the stock as 100%, then bare gun was $25875 (51750 / 2). Convert that into a common wartime 7,63mm pistol, $25875 20-shot is equivalent of a $1293 standard pistol (25875 / 20 = 1293)

If there is a standard 7,63mm pistol in this condition asking $1293, it will be considered being expensive and hard to sell. So, that 20-shot conehammer was a little bit expensive. Above chart helps converting scarce and rare C96 into common C96 that we met every month to tell the relative value. So, it's very useful. Of course, very high condition gun or rare gun could break the chart here and there. That's market behavior.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Blue book has values

I think you have to give more info on what you have heard; but personally I would go by values I see at gunbroker (sold items)...

I don't even bother to look at the Blue Book values. By the time they are printed the values are already out of date. They do not take into consideration the difference between 'collectors' and casual buyers, they don't reflect regional values, they use their own 'condition' value system, and they don't take into consideration 'trends' in buyers wants. A good example of 'trends' is the upswing in interest in Totenkopf and Russian Contract Lugers, fueled by intense and sometimes passionate discussion on many Internet forums.

Then there are intermittent surges in certain models that bring down the values of related handguns - the Walther P1 is still selling locally at $499 [Gander Mountain has dozens], which affects sales of all large 9mm handguns.

I like Ed's view; that completed sales of Gunbroker items, averaged, gives a good indication of the fair market value. In fact, I need to research the values of all my handguns for insurance and estate purposes.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

Does anyone understand that example?
Alvin can expand upon that method and concept, please.
Jack

Sure it is pretty simple,

IF a common pistol is $1000, then a more valuable/scarcer one is

5 , 10, or 20 times that.

Kind of like a $1000 1920 commerical luger, and a Kreigoff is worth on avg. 5x as much, or $5000

[Lugerdoc]

In addition to the scarcity multiple, there should also be one for condition. TH

[siegersallee]

Hey guys, these are excellent ideas, suggestions, and observations. Many, many thanks to all!