Help with a proof mark

Mike B · 02-16-2015, 02:01 AM

Greetings from 70 degree south Louisiana,

Can anyone help ID this proof? I have looked at every proof in Costanzo and other books and cannot find it.

Mike

sheepherder · 02-16-2015, 10:59 AM

Mike, I'm also intrigued by this proof mark. I don't know squat about proofs, but if you can describe more about what kind of Luger it was applied to, maybe someone can look it up in another book...Maybe even some pics...

Lugerdoc · 02-16-2015, 12:03 PM

Mike, Your unknown barrel proofing appears to be a crude attempt to duplicate a late Kreighoff Luftwaffe acceptance proof. TH

Mike B · 02-16-2015, 03:02 PM

This appears to be the same proof as above, but this one is on the frame rail and another on the receiver. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Mike

Arizona Slim · 02-16-2015, 07:49 PM

Mike, no luck here on identifying your proof mark and I have searched several of my reference books also but the Eagle proof definitely appears to be the same as is found on the Kreighoff Luftwaffe contract lugers I would try to find a copy of Gibson's reference book on Kreighoff Lugers or someone that has access to one. Good luck.

Lon

wlyon · 02-16-2015, 08:06 PM

mike
Yor mark is a Krieghoff LWaA 1st=Stage II, 1944. This is from Gibson's book. Bill

cirelaw · 02-16-2015, 09:32 PM

Nice Work Bill! I got it! It almost the same as my 1937 Krieghoff. I will post mine in the morning! Is there a chamber date? Tks Eric

cirelaw · 02-17-2015, 10:59 AM

Let me know if you need any more~ Eric

sheepherder · 02-17-2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Let me know if you need any more~ Eric

Do you have the barrel proof next to the serial??? Or is that something unique to 1944+ Krieghoffs???

Bill, does Gibson show a barrel proof (next to serial) like Mike's???

cirelaw · 02-17-2015, 12:16 PM

Yes

sheepherder · 02-17-2015, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Yes

That's a 'Droop Eagle/2'...Is that what the graphic on Mike's barrel is supposed to look like???

From the look of Mike's, I thought it was a letter-combination logo-type thingie...

cirelaw · 02-17-2015, 01:54 PM

Rich, What was the '882' stand for? Eric

John Sabato · 02-17-2015, 02:07 PM

8.82MM bore diameter This can range from 8.81 to 8.85mm according to the manufacturing tolerances on the blueprints (available for sale in the FOR SALE forum).

cirelaw · 02-17-2015, 02:26 PM

Thank You John!

wlyon · 02-17-2015, 02:38 PM

Kreighoff seemed to use several different marks. I believe there is some correlation to serial numbers but sometimes the difference is minute. As with any proofs ,especiallly on a round surface, sometimes pieces are missing, or at least not very clear. We need John D on here to help us out. But it certaintly looks like a Kreighoff proof. Bill

Sergio Natali · 02-17-2015, 03:08 PM

I'm not at all an expert on "proofs" but I would basically agree with Tom.
I believe those might be attempts to duplicate late Kreighoff Luftwaffe acceptance proofs , as if you compare them with the proofs pictured on pages 95-100 of Randall Gibson's book you'll notice some big differences.
FWIW

Sergio

cirelaw · 02-17-2015, 04:05 PM

Tks my Friend, I'm still trying to find out the chamber date which can be helpful!

sheepherder · 02-17-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

...if you compare them with the proofs pictured on pages 95-100 of Randall Gibson's book you'll notice some big differences.

Would any like to scan a pic of Gibson's proof for comparison??? I looked in Sturgess & Gortz and didn't see any barrel proof anything like Mike's...

Looking in Datig, I see a Dutch Army frame "KL" intertwined inside a circle and an early Krieghoff toggle "HK" in a circle that by a stretch of the imagination might look vaguely like Mike's proof...

Here's a scan from Walters' book which may be similar...

John D. · 02-17-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

....We need John D on here to help us out. But it certaintly looks like a Kreighoff proof. Bill

I've actually been corresponding with Mike about his Luger - and missed this thread. And Bill, you are "right on" with your interpretation of that proof (what I wrote in my PM to Mike was: LWaA 1st Stage II - beginning in the first production pieces of 1944.. which is what I wrote to Mike yesterday with the proof on the rail - BUT, I need better pics, and requested as much.. Hadn't seen the one under the bbl until this thread, so I have no opinion on that one (yet)...

Best to you,

John D.

Mike B · 02-17-2015, 08:11 PM

Many thanks to all that has contributed to my question. I do not have the Luger in hand yet, however according to latest tracking information, I should have it sometime Friday. I will post photos then.
I have a 1936 Krieghoff in hand and comparing the photos on the auction to the actual 1936 and using the stock lug as a guide, it appears that this is a Krieghoff frame with a Mauser barrel and toggle train. Once I have it in hand, all questions should be answered. Thanks again,
Mike

02-16-2015, 02:01 AM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Help with a proof mark Greetings from 70 degree south Louisiana, Can anyone help ID this proof? I have looked at every proof in Costanzo and other books and cannot find it. Mike Attached Thumbnails

02-16-2015, 10:59 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Mike, I'm also intrigued by this proof mark. I don't know squat about proofs, but if you can describe more about what kind of Luger it was applied to, maybe someone can look it up in another book...Maybe even some pics... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-16-2015, 12:03 PM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mike, Your unknown barrel proofing appears to be a crude attempt to duplicate a late Kreighoff Luftwaffe acceptance proof. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-16-2015, 03:02 PM	#4
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Here is another proof This appears to be the same proof as above, but this one is on the frame rail and another on the receiver. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Mike Attached Thumbnails

02-16-2015, 08:06 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	mike Yor mark is a Krieghoff LWaA 1st=Stage II, 1944. This is from Gibson's book. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-16-2015, 07:49 PM	#5
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Mike, no luck here on identifying your proof mark and I have searched several of my reference books also but the Eagle proof definitely appears to be the same as is found on the Kreighoff Luftwaffe contract lugers I would try to find a copy of Gibson's reference book on Kreighoff Lugers or someone that has access to one. Good luck. Lon

02-16-2015, 09:32 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Nice Work Bill! I got it! It almost the same as my 1937 Krieghoff. I will post mine in the morning! Is there a chamber date? Tks Eric

02-17-2015, 10:59 AM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	1937 krieghoffs side proofs~ Let me know if you need any more~ Eric Attached Thumbnails

02-17-2015, 12:16 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Yes Attached Thumbnails

02-17-2015, 01:54 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Rich, What was the '882' stand for? Eric

02-17-2015, 02:07 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	8.82MM bore diameter This can range from 8.81 to 8.85mm according to the manufacturing tolerances on the blueprints (available for sale in the FOR SALE forum). __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-17-2015, 02:26 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You John!

02-17-2015, 02:38 PM	#15
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Kreighoff seemed to use several different marks. I believe there is some correlation to serial numbers but sometimes the difference is minute. As with any proofs ,especiallly on a round surface, sometimes pieces are missing, or at least not very clear. We need John D on here to help us out. But it certaintly looks like a Kreighoff proof. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-17-2015, 03:08 PM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I'm not at all an expert on "proofs" but I would basically agree with Tom. I believe those might be attempts to duplicate late Kreighoff Luftwaffe acceptance proofs , as if you compare them with the proofs pictured on pages 95-100 of Randall Gibson's book you'll notice some big differences. FWIW Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-17-2015, 04:05 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Tks my Friend, I'm still trying to find out the chamber date which can be helpful! Attached Thumbnails

02-17-2015, 08:11 PM	#20
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Many thanks to all that has contributed to my question. I do not have the Luger in hand yet, however according to latest tracking information, I should have it sometime Friday. I will post photos then. I have a 1936 Krieghoff in hand and comparing the photos on the auction to the actual 1936 and using the stock lug as a guide, it appears that this is a Krieghoff frame with a Mauser barrel and toggle train. Once I have it in hand, all questions should be answered. Thanks again, Mike