Caution for buying Luger Parts on eBay...

John Sabato · 12-20-2013, 11:02 AM

Know what you want, before you bid...

At the time I am writing this there is what appears to be a Luger frame on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-L...90#ht_38wt_808

but it ISN'T...

It is the frame of a toy or metal replica pistol that is being represented as vintage "WW2 German Luger P 08 Pistol Grips and Parts Housing"... well it is 'vintage'... but it isn't a Luger frame.

1. It would be against eBay rules and federal law to sell it there, or to anyone who is not a C&R or FFL license holder.

2. If you don't know what you are buying, you can waste a lot of money... (someone has bid $250 for this item, and it is junk)

The seller caveat is "what you see is what you get"... that means no refund...

Let's be careful out there... P.T. Barnum said that there is one born every minute... don't you be one of them.

alanint · 12-20-2013, 11:43 AM

Some moron has even managed to put a "Million Dollar Chip" in cheap plastic replica grips....

Arizona Slim · 12-20-2013, 03:36 PM

I sent a report on this item to ebay, hopefully they will take this item out of the sale. Perhaps if others will do the same this sale will be stopped.

Lon

lugerholsterrepair · 12-20-2013, 09:08 PM

1. It would be against eBay rules and federal law to sell it there, or to anyone who is not a C&R or FFL license holder.

How so it it's a toy?

John Sabato · 12-21-2013, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

1. It would be against eBay rules and federal law to sell it there, or to anyone who is not a C&R or FFL license holder.

How so it it's a toy?

If it really was a frame as the seller so originally implied. If it wasn't meant to imply that it was a frame, the suckers would never have fooled into bidding this high.

alanint · 12-21-2013, 07:48 AM

The dimensions will not allow real Luger parts to be added to it, as the buyer will find out once he receives it.
These are all a zinc based "pot metal" which will actually melt in a pot of boiling water.

ithacaartist · 12-21-2013, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

...These are all a zinc based "pot metal" which will actually melt in a pot of boiling water.

Temp to melt Zamak is generally slightly under 400 degrees Celsius.

But alloys of zinc are formulated in a "melting pot". I've always taken the term "pot metal" as having slightly disparaging connotations, but I figured that this was centered on the possibility of throwing an imprecise variety of metals into the pot, resulting in unreliably formulated, structurally inferior castings. I'm doubtin' the connection to water.

I once had received a cast zinc alloy belt buckle shaped like a chainsaw for Xmas. I was at work when a housemate placed the buckle on the top front corner of the wood stove, 'cause it looked cool there. When I returned home, my belt buckle was a shiny puddle on the floor in front of the stove. A typical operating temp for this part of the stove can range up to 6-800 degrees F, which was sufficient to melt that alloy.

Didn't temperature of fusion have something to do with regulation of whether a gun was classified as a "Saturday night special"--a cheap, basically disposable firearm. I forget the reference, but if a gun's frame had a low enough temperature of fusion, it was not allowed.

alanint · 12-21-2013, 03:13 PM

I say that because as a kid I broke the back sight off my MGC Model Gun MP40 and tried to glue it back onto the stamped steel receiver. After many attempts it was just a mess, so my Dad put the back sight into a pot of boiling water to try and remove the globs of glue. The entire sight melted into a blob of zinc! I had to order a new sight from MGC. I am convinced this frame is made of the same stuff.

Jim Mac · 12-23-2013, 07:06 AM

There was one of these on ebay, In the description it was stated that a magnet will not stick to it. Jim

hansfischer007 · 12-23-2013, 01:03 PM

Is MGC still in business..???...approximately 20 years ago...in a Military Show in Atlanta...I bought an MGC MP38 Schmeisser....it apparently had gone thru a few Collectors hands...had some dings and scratches on it....but amazingly had an Original Magazine and Leather Sling.!!...as the show was closing and dealer was packing up......as i was looking at it...he said....."Dont want to take it back home....would $100. work for you..??......and Ive still got it.....took it to a couple Military Shows and put up as display model with some photos....but folks kept wanting to handle it....and anyone that did insisted it was a REAL SCHMEISSER..!!..so I quit taking it....and gave it to my youngest son who is a Police Officer.......but it sure looks good and Original

kubel · 12-23-2013, 09:21 PM

MGC (Model Gun Company) apparently made the dummy guns (and later cap firing models) from 1968 to 1977. Check out this site for more details: http://www.mp40modelguns.com/MGC%20MP40.htm

alanint · 12-24-2013, 07:48 AM

My MGC MP40, (still got it) is almost exactly like an original. They were later modified to take a bolt with a large cutout for an offset ejector, as the first models would actually allow a real MP40 bolt to just drop in!!, (It is said by some that you could buy a parts kit from Sarco or other and simply bolt everything onto the MGC steel receiver and have a working MP40. I tend to doubt that but I remember the stories). The magazine looks original, with fake waffenamps and all, but is is slightly oversized and will not fit in a real MP40. The easiest way to tell is that they have a cheap follower, made of folded over metal, versus a nicely stamped/formed follower on the real magazines.

sheepherder · 12-24-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I say that because as a kid I broke the back sight off my MGC Model Gun MP40 and tried to glue it back onto the stamped steel receiver. After many attempts it was just a mess, so my Dad put the back sight into a pot of boiling water to try and remove the globs of glue. The entire sight melted into a blob of zinc! I had to order a new sight from MGC. I am convinced this frame is made of the same stuff.

Doug, I don't doubt it, if it was lying on the bottom of the pot. The temp at the bottom of the metal pot (not the water) is essentially the same as the heating coil - Which can be hundreds of degrees higher than 212º. The act of boiling actually cools the pot (relatively speaking). Wikipedia shows Zinc melting at 786 °F, which I would think is easily reached by an electric stove and certainly by a gas stove. Lead bullets are cast on electric stoves at 621.5 °F.

I have two MGC MP-40s. The sheet metal is thinner than the Germans used - about half the gauge [thickness].

12-20-2013, 11:02 AM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Caution for buying Luger Parts on eBay... Know what you want, before you bid... At the time I am writing this there is what appears to be a Luger frame on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-L...90#ht_38wt_808 but it ISN'T... It is the frame of a toy or metal replica pistol that is being represented as vintage "WW2 German Luger P 08 Pistol Grips and Parts Housing"... well it is 'vintage'... but it isn't a Luger frame. 1. It would be against eBay rules and federal law to sell it there, or to anyone who is not a C&R or FFL license holder. 2. If you don't know what you are buying, you can waste a lot of money... (someone has bid $250 for this item, and it is junk) The seller caveat is "what you see is what you get"... that means no refund... Let's be careful out there... P.T. Barnum said that there is one born every minute... don't you be one of them. Attached Thumbnails __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-20-2013, 09:08 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	1. It would be against eBay rules and federal law to sell it there, or to anyone who is not a C&R or FFL license holder. How so it it's a toy? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-23-2013, 01:03 PM	#10
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Mgc ? Is MGC still in business..???...approximately 20 years ago...in a Military Show in Atlanta...I bought an MGC MP38 Schmeisser....it apparently had gone thru a few Collectors hands...had some dings and scratches on it....but amazingly had an Original Magazine and Leather Sling.!!...as the show was closing and dealer was packing up......as i was looking at it...he said....."Dont want to take it back home....would $100. work for you..??......and Ive still got it.....took it to a couple Military Shows and put up as display model with some photos....but folks kept wanting to handle it....and anyone that did insisted it was a REAL SCHMEISSER..!!..so I quit taking it....and gave it to my youngest son who is a Police Officer.......but it sure looks good and Original

12-20-2013, 11:43 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Some moron has even managed to put a "Million Dollar Chip" in cheap plastic replica grips....

12-20-2013, 03:36 PM	#3
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	I sent a report on this item to ebay, hopefully they will take this item out of the sale. Perhaps if others will do the same this sale will be stopped. Lon

12-21-2013, 07:48 AM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The dimensions will not allow real Luger parts to be added to it, as the buyer will find out once he receives it. These are all a zinc based "pot metal" which will actually melt in a pot of boiling water.

12-21-2013, 03:13 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I say that because as a kid I broke the back sight off my MGC Model Gun MP40 and tried to glue it back onto the stamped steel receiver. After many attempts it was just a mess, so my Dad put the back sight into a pot of boiling water to try and remove the globs of glue. The entire sight melted into a blob of zinc! I had to order a new sight from MGC. I am convinced this frame is made of the same stuff.

12-23-2013, 07:06 AM	#9
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 264 Thanks: 2 Thanked 70 Times in 37 Posts	There was one of these on ebay, In the description it was stated that a magnet will not stick to it. Jim

12-23-2013, 09:21 PM	#11
kubel User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 124 Thanks: 5 Thanked 32 Times in 20 Posts	MGC (Model Gun Company) apparently made the dummy guns (and later cap firing models) from 1968 to 1977. Check out this site for more details: http://www.mp40modelguns.com/MGC%20MP40.htm

12-24-2013, 07:48 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	My MGC MP40, (still got it) is almost exactly like an original. They were later modified to take a bolt with a large cutout for an offset ejector, as the first models would actually allow a real MP40 bolt to just drop in!!, (It is said by some that you could buy a parts kit from Sarco or other and simply bolt everything onto the MGC steel receiver and have a working MP40. I tend to doubt that but I remember the stories). The magazine looks original, with fake waffenamps and all, but is is slightly oversized and will not fit in a real MP40. The easiest way to tell is that they have a cheap follower, made of folded over metal, versus a nicely stamped/formed follower on the real magazines.