Riddle me this batman...

siegersallee · 10-14-2013, 01:19 PM

Why do professionally restored Lugers (WWI era say) loose value and desirability as collectibles while a professionally restored 1927 Cadillac Phaeton gains exponentially in value and collectibility?

Ron Wood · 10-14-2013, 02:02 PM

Two different collecting interests, two different sets of rules. Each hobby has its own guidelines...one size does not fit all.

alanint · 10-14-2013, 02:43 PM

Car collectors do tend to pay a premium and value an all-original car over a restoration, but the original car must really be pristine.

And let's face it. There are far more really excellent, original pistols out there than there are truly original 50 plus year old classic cars. It is much easier to put away a pistol and not touch it for years than it is your transportation.

mrerick · 10-14-2013, 03:34 PM

You can "make" a restored 1927 Cadillac Phaeton today if you have the parts and expertise.

You can never again "make" an excellent (100%) condition Luger in original finish, all matching, from the original manufacturer.

By definition, there can only be a limited number of the originals forever more. That limited number is probably in the hundred(s) of thousands, with a few thousand in top condition.

I doubt you could find many 1927 Cadillac Phaetons in original top condition. Those cars would probably be worth a lot more than restored ones if they existed...

So, it's desirability, and the limited number of existing originals that determines the market price.

Your value may vary... I have had a Simson Luger restored back from the improperly refinished condition I bought it in. It made me happy to see it back in it's original Rust Blue and Straw...

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2013, 03:50 PM

More examples - Depends on what you collect too; a luger has serial numbers on all small parts
while a garand, M1 Carbine, etc have much more options, if mismatched by manufacturer parts, you can find the correct manufacturer and make it 'right' - to reparkerize is okay to many people, to them restoring a piece. But if you restore most revolvers and pistols, its a not good thing.

Take a 1911 Colt, original condition, price is pretty darn high, value goes up for a restored version, but nothing like an original condition 1911.

siegersallee · 10-14-2013, 05:23 PM

mrerick,

that is a very fine looking restored Simpson (lower picture).
It certainly must be more desirable than in the previous condition (upper condition).

Of course, your point is that the lower desirable restoration is topped if an all original could be had in a similar condition.

OK guys, I am getting it now. The larger number of all original, un-restored, fine to low-fine lugers compared to orginal, un-restored fine to low-fine Cadillac Phaetons is the crux of the issue.

And I think we are back to supply and demand. OK...I'm good with that.

10-14-2013, 01:19 PM	#1
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Riddle me this batman... Why do professionally restored Lugers (WWI era say) loose value and desirability as collectibles while a professionally restored 1927 Cadillac Phaeton gains exponentially in value and collectibility? __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script) Last edited by siegersallee; 10-14-2013 at 02:07 PM.

10-14-2013, 02:02 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Two different collecting interests, two different sets of rules. Each hobby has its own guidelines...one size does not fit all. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-14-2013, 03:34 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	You can "make" a restored 1927 Cadillac Phaeton today if you have the parts and expertise. You can never again "make" an excellent (100%) condition Luger in original finish, all matching, from the original manufacturer. By definition, there can only be a limited number of the originals forever more. That limited number is probably in the hundred(s) of thousands, with a few thousand in top condition. I doubt you could find many 1927 Cadillac Phaetons in original top condition. Those cars would probably be worth a lot more than restored ones if they existed... So, it's desirability, and the limited number of existing originals that determines the market price. Your value may vary... I have had a Simson Luger restored back from the improperly refinished condition I bought it in. It made me happy to see it back in it's original Rust Blue and Straw... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-14-2013, 05:23 PM	#6
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	mrerick, that is a very fine looking restored Simpson (lower picture). It certainly must be more desirable than in the previous condition (upper condition). Of course, your point is that the lower desirable restoration is topped if an all original could be had in a similar condition. OK guys, I am getting it now. The larger number of all original, un-restored, fine to low-fine lugers compared to orginal, un-restored fine to low-fine Cadillac Phaetons is the crux of the issue. And I think we are back to supply and demand. OK...I'm good with that. __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

10-14-2013, 02:43 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Car collectors do tend to pay a premium and value an all-original car over a restoration, but the original car must really be pristine. And let's face it. There are far more really excellent, original pistols out there than there are truly original 50 plus year old classic cars. It is much easier to put away a pistol and not touch it for years than it is your transportation.

10-14-2013, 03:50 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	More examples - Depends on what you collect too; a luger has serial numbers on all small parts while a garand, M1 Carbine, etc have much more options, if mismatched by manufacturer parts, you can find the correct manufacturer and make it 'right' - to reparkerize is okay to many people, to them restoring a piece. But if you restore most revolvers and pistols, its a not good thing. Take a 1911 Colt, original condition, price is pretty darn high, value goes up for a restored version, but nothing like an original condition 1911.