Process of buying and selling?

[LWaali]

I have looked for a sticky on this but did not find one. Please excuse me if I missed it and this has been rehashed a million times.

I just read the ripped-off-in-Miami post. When I am ready to sell part of my collection, what is the best process to protect both seller and buyer?

I have a current online subscription for the Blue Book of Gun Values and it does not seem nearly as accurate and descriptive as they used to be. Is BB still the most used source for valuing?

I am assuming, for the protection of both parties, that all transfers of long or hand guns should go through a retail FFL, even if the buyer is a c&r holder? Would the seller (me) need to be a c&r holder also?

What is a reasonable rate for a retail fll to charge? I made some calls here and the rate appears to be from $30 to $75.. seems too wide of a range so is one trying to rip off people or is the other dodgy?

Several of what I want to sell might in in the $1,000 range. Is it worth getting them appraised? How can I tell if a dealer in my area is actually good at appraising? (That may have sounded like a silly question but most of the shops around here have guns for sale that have been 'described incorrectly' in their display cases (meaning out right fraud in some cases).

Thanks for anyone with the time to reply!
Linda

[padredan]

Linda , it will depend on your area how much a ffl holder may charge fora transfer, in my area it is 25.00 to 40.00 it may depend on the dealer . as for appraisers that to can vary greatly as well as the blue book guide. not sure this is much help to you, but good luck.

[Edward Tinker]

It depends on the state, but in almost every state I have lived in, and by Federal regulations, the only person that needs an FFL is the BUYER for firearms.

If the buyer has an FFL / whether they have their own or a gunshop FFL 01 (dealer license) or FFL 03 commonly called a C&R (anything over 50 yrs or unique); then they send it to you, this can be fax, email or hard copy with payment. I accept Paypal (discrete, no mention of firearms or otherwise and prefer the buyer to pay the fee or send as a gift; I accept checks from people I know and money orders or bank checks from those I do not know.

So, once payment is cleared (days, not weeks like it used to be), i ship the item to the person. UNLESS you live in a state that requires YOU to go through an FFL, then the receipt of the FFL in your possession is your 'proof' that it no longer belongs to you. i write the item, the serial number and the date shipped on the FFL itself.

Appraising.... unless a rare item, don't bother - check gunbroker.com and see what LIKE items have sold for (not asking price) in the last 3 months - checking at on-line dealers is fine, but that is a retail price and you have to make the decision of making the last buck or selling reasonably quickly. As an example, If I was buying your 30-06 ammo, it would be for me, I would want it cheaper than on-line, or i would buy it on-line. If I was buying say a model 70 (CZ i think), and say gunbroker said they were selling for around $275 / i would want to buy it for $150, because I would sell it on my table that I have several times a year at a gunshow. If you are selling on gunbroker, then start it at $150 / realizing that they will charge you $5-10 for each sale and the more it is, the more it costs you.

Shipping; i feel completely legal shipping USPS to another FFL holder / some will disagree with this, I usually ship 2nd day air for pistols / revolvers because I can track it / be advised that if you tell FedEx or UPS it is a pistol or revolver they will tell you it has to ship next day air, more than double the cost.... Rifles and shotguns I ship via USPS, I pack well and have had no issues. If UPS is close, then that is a good way to ship slightly cheaper and ground (USPS priority is fast, but can get to $30 or more via USPS priority)

For non firearms, such as ammo, then you may request a copy of proof of who they are, such as drivers license copy, if you are 'worried' about it. And by the rules, must be shipped ground / FedEx or UPS / some will say there is an expensive charge, it is minimal for small amounts, maybe a couple of bucks, plus shipping.

Ed

[wlyon]

I have talked to a couple UPS offices on shipping handguns. As Ed stated they will only ship overnight mail. They also told me if a handgun is shipped other than overnight the insurance will not be paid because, according to their rules it was shipped , illegally. This shipping seems to be a non ending debate. Can some one enlighten us on the correct way to ship by both UPS and the Postal Service? Will the Post Office accept a C&R permit? I for one cannot afford the fine and hassle of illegal shipping. Help please. Not how you do it but what is legal. Thanks Bill

[LWaali]

According to ATF regs (Does not preclude State regulations)
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Q: Are curio or relic firearms exempt from the provisions of the GCA?
No. Curios or relics are still firearms subject to the provisions of the GCA; however, curio or relic firearms may be transferred in interstate commerce to licensed collectors or other licensees.

Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping.

Also, there is a place online to check the validity of FFL licenses IF YOU ARE ALSO a license holder. Does not help me but it might help some of you.
http://www.atf.gov/applications/fflezcheck/

[mrerick]

The license check site is not for class 03 C&R or class 06 Ammo Mfg licensees. It doesn't include class 03 C&R collector licensees in the database.

It is OK to ship a C&R firearm interstate to a C&R license holder. While not an absolute guarantee of honesty, someone holding a C&R license has been through a criminal background check. Look for someone with a track record in the collecting community.

It's normal to offer a 3 business day evaluation period (non-firing) during which you'll accept return of a firearm at the purchaser's expense for full refund.

Note that you have to have a signed copy of the FFL in order to initiate shipment across state borders; and all state and local laws in both locations have to be complied with.

These rules do not apply to export outside the USA, which requires a formal export license and is handled by a FFL licensed for export / import.

Marc

[lew1]

Insofar as handguns are concerned, USPS regs govern the shipment of handguns.

According to their regs, a handgun can be shipped only between 01 licensees and/or manufacturers of firearms.

Additionally, the shipper must certify the foregoing. See USPS Form 1508 attached.

C&R holders and individuals do not meet the qualifications.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by LWaali

According to ATF regs (Does not preclude State regulations)...

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

In NY State, it is a requirement that a handgun sent into the state to an FFL holder also be sent BY an FFL holder. This complicates matters and increases transfer costs, but that's what we have to live with here. I think it's generally a good policy to check on these requirements so that any expense that is extra can be acknowledged and negotiated during the sale.

[Curly1]

And if living in NYS and shipping to an FFL01 in NYS the sending FFL01 must include a copy of his state dealers licence as well as his federal.

You can also find a local dealer and put them on consignment to sell in his shop or list on one of the auction sites, then you are out of the loop, he does all the work and you pay a commission of around 15-20%.