Useful information about C & R applications

siegersallee · 06-11-2012, 07:02 AM

Hi all,

As some of you know I have applied recently for a C & R.
I thought I would share some links and information that could be of assistence to others.

Links:
C & R FAQ.
C & R application.

BATF C & R processing center in WV phone directory.
Service Centers and additional contact points.
An example filled out form.

In my quest, I was confounded about question 9. I called the local Atlanta service center to clarify the question and was given wrong information. Based upon the answer, I left the question blank. This was a serious error. The processing of my application could not begin until this question was answered.

This problem was not communicated to me by the BATF processing center until I called to check the status of my application. I quickly supplied the required missing information and things appear to be moving forward. However, that mistake has added an additional 30 days to the processing of my application.

Read the instructions at the bottom of the application VERY carefully. If you are still unsure of something call the BATF processing office in WV. They will assist you. Do NOT call local service centers. The service centers often do not know the questions, so their answers are suspect.

The $30.00 processing fee will be charged to your credit card, or your check or money order cashed, as soon as the application is received by the BATF processing center. If you mail your application to the Atlanta address, the application is forwarded to the WV processing center. This is your indication that the application was received.

I advise you to call the BATF processing office after you know the application was received to verify that the application is in the system and being actively worked.

If you call the processing office, be sure to get the name of anyone you contact. The personnel there are doing their best and in my direct dealings with them they were very helpful. Of course, sometimes you may get a less than helpful person. Just give them the benefit of the doubt, keep everything very professional, and call back later.

My only complaint is that I felt that the BATF should have contacted me as soon as the problem with my application was known to them rather than me having to root out the problem. Also, the local BATF service centers should defer answering questions to the main processing center in WV.

I hope this will help you in your C & R processing.

Richard.

mrerick · 06-11-2012, 10:34 AM

Richard,

Good post! It's unfortunate that things got delayed for you.

The ATF forms are confusing in some ways. It's evident that the form was authored by taking the Class 01 license form and "Morphing" it into a C&R license application form. Phrases like question 9's reference to:

Each Individual Owner, Partner, and Other Responsible Person in the Business

would be inappropriate for private collectors that are prohibited from doing business in firearms by the regulations.

That guide to completing the C&R license application is the best I've seen.

Marc

aptech77 · 06-11-2012, 01:32 PM

Looks like I did it wrong. Do I have to wait, or can I send them a new copy the right way?

siegersallee · 06-11-2012, 03:18 PM

aptech77,

Do not send them a new form. It totally disrupts their system. You will then have two applications with them. In that event, one application will be denied and the other discarded. AND, you will be charged twice!

At least that is what one of the folks there that I spoke to said.

The best thing to do is to call them.

Use the "BATF C & R Processing Center Phone Directory" link in my first post to find the processor responsible for your state.

You will most probably have to call a number of times. So be prepared to leave a message. If you do not hear from them in a reasonable amount of time, call one of the Directors of the BATF. Their numbers and positions are listed in the directory link.

Once you get a human contact, explain the situation and see what they advise you to do.

Now, according to their process, if your application is missing something they will contact you; however, I have found that this may be very slow: best if you take some proactive action.

Again, be courteous and professional with anyone you speak to.

Best of luck,
Richard

siegersallee · 06-11-2012, 03:23 PM

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your kind words.

You are exactly right. I interpreted question 9 as you say. I called the Atlanta branch office and they said that was exactly right.

Later, I was taking to another person who had their application processed in 3 weeks (!!!) and they said that they answered the question; but, they too had been confused. This guy called the BATF processing center to get clarification and they steered him in the right direction.

So, I think you see why that question seems to me to be very misleading.

Richard

aptech77 · 06-11-2012, 03:44 PM

Ok, called them and she said wait until they process my payment, they will then assign a file number and I can make the corrections then. PITA......

siegersallee · 06-11-2012, 04:18 PM

aptech77,

Yes, I know...bureaucracy.

But, at least you have a contact now and you can stay on top of the application as it grinds its way through the bowels of red tape.

Richard

Edward Tinker · 06-11-2012, 09:59 PM

Just write in your information as an individual / I do think many folks over-think things like this

That said, I personally have felt that a C&R collector accused of 'selling' as a biz could argue with showing the application form and saying, hey??? The C&R you get sent says can not be used to for a business.

I think the first time I applied for one, I simply circled the individual and wrote my info in, but I don't remember....

jamese · 06-14-2012, 08:21 AM

Yea, I had a problem on my renewal....I don’t remember the the question was, but it was the supplemental form about US citizenship. I had my wife sign the form to verify I was a US citizen and apparently I didn’t need to fill out that form. However they did contact me by sending me a copy of the form and tell me to mark it N/A as I recall and send it back.

I did and a few weeks later my renewed C&R came in the mail

you would think, if "Amazon.com" can give me a list of all the stuff I have ordered over the last 6 years, the US government could check there database and see that I have been paying taxes etc.. for the last 40 years, filled out numberous U.S. Customs Declaration forms, have a valid U.S. Passport on file and/or look up my other C&R licenses on file and know I was a citizen ??

Jim

siegersallee · 06-14-2012, 07:21 PM

Ed,
The C & R application has changed in the past year or two. I don't think the one you used is the same.

Quote:

It's evident that the form was authored by taking the Class 01 license form and "Morphing" it into a C&R license

mrerick, noted that the form seens to be a derivation of another form. That aligns with some posts I have seen on another site.

But, it is what it is and I hope the links I included in my earlier post will be of help to others and they will get the form right on the first go round.

Richard

Edward Tinker · 06-14-2012, 08:10 PM

Richard, I had let my C&R lapse, and did a new one last summer

siegersallee · 07-02-2012, 04:10 PM

Ok,

After the initial delay and problems, my application was entered into the system on 8 June and approved on 27 June. I received it today (2 July).

All in all once it got into the system, the turn around was fairly quick.

So, I am now legal!

Thanks, to all who tolerated my moaning and complaining.

I must say that once you get an examiner to talk to when there is a problem, everything moves much more quickly and smoother.

Everyone with whom I dealt with were polite and tried their best (within the restraints of the system), to get my application processed.

To anyone who is starting the process, be sure to review the links that I have provided.

Also, there is good news. According to one of the examiners, the current form is being revamped. Apparently, question 9 is commonly misinterpreted. So there may be a newer more streamlined form in the future.

Richard

aptech77 · 07-09-2012, 07:01 PM

Well, despite me thinking I made some mistakes on the app. and calling every week to find out nothing, I got my license today. Guess it helped already being on the "radar" since I hold an FAA airframe and powerplant license w/ an inspection authorization endorsement and I deal with the feds bi weekly. Cheers, let's go shopping.

siegersallee · 07-09-2012, 08:18 PM

Yeah, I found that staying in touch, making a personal contact, and being very polite and affable pays off. Keep the name of the examiner handy because when renewal time comes up they may be able to expedite the process since they have dealt with you before.

aptech77 · 07-09-2012, 08:37 PM

That's exactly how it is with the FAA. I'm on a first name basis with my local FSDO.

06-11-2012, 07:02 AM	#1
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Useful information about C & R applications Hi all, As some of you know I have applied recently for a C & R. I thought I would share some links and information that could be of assistence to others. Links: C & R FAQ. C & R application. BATF C & R processing center in WV phone directory. Service Centers and additional contact points. An example filled out form. In my quest, I was confounded about question 9. I called the local Atlanta service center to clarify the question and was given wrong information. Based upon the answer, I left the question blank. This was a serious error. The processing of my application could not begin until this question was answered. This problem was not communicated to me by the BATF processing center until I called to check the status of my application. I quickly supplied the required missing information and things appear to be moving forward. However, that mistake has added an additional 30 days to the processing of my application. Read the instructions at the bottom of the application VERY carefully. If you are still unsure of something call the BATF processing office in WV. They will assist you. Do NOT call local service centers. The service centers often do not know the questions, so their answers are suspect. The $30.00 processing fee will be charged to your credit card, or your check or money order cashed, as soon as the application is received by the BATF processing center. If you mail your application to the Atlanta address, the application is forwarded to the WV processing center. This is your indication that the application was received. I advise you to call the BATF processing office after you know the application was received to verify that the application is in the system and being actively worked. If you call the processing office, be sure to get the name of anyone you contact. The personnel there are doing their best and in my direct dealings with them they were very helpful. Of course, sometimes you may get a less than helpful person. Just give them the benefit of the doubt, keep everything very professional, and call back later. My only complaint is that I felt that the BATF should have contacted me as soon as the problem with my application was known to them rather than me having to root out the problem. Also, the local BATF service centers should defer answering questions to the main processing center in WV. I hope this will help you in your C & R processing. Richard. __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script) Last edited by siegersallee; 06-11-2012 at 04:47 PM.

06-11-2012, 10:34 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Richard, Good post! It's unfortunate that things got delayed for you. The ATF forms are confusing in some ways. It's evident that the form was authored by taking the Class 01 license form and "Morphing" it into a C&R license application form. Phrases like question 9's reference to: Each Individual Owner, Partner, and Other Responsible Person in the Business would be inappropriate for private collectors that are prohibited from doing business in firearms by the regulations. That guide to completing the C&R license application is the best I've seen. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-11-2012, 03:18 PM	#4
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	aptech77, Do not send them a new form. It totally disrupts their system. You will then have two applications with them. In that event, one application will be denied and the other discarded. AND, you will be charged twice! At least that is what one of the folks there that I spoke to said. The best thing to do is to call them. Use the "BATF C & R Processing Center Phone Directory" link in my first post to find the processor responsible for your state. You will most probably have to call a number of times. So be prepared to leave a message. If you do not hear from them in a reasonable amount of time, call one of the Directors of the BATF. Their numbers and positions are listed in the directory link. Once you get a human contact, explain the situation and see what they advise you to do. Now, according to their process, if your application is missing something they will contact you; however, I have found that this may be very slow: best if you take some proactive action. Again, be courteous and professional with anyone you speak to. Best of luck, Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

06-11-2012, 03:23 PM	#5
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Hi Marc, Thank you for your kind words. You are exactly right. I interpreted question 9 as you say. I called the Atlanta branch office and they said that was exactly right. Later, I was taking to another person who had their application processed in 3 weeks (!!!) and they said that they answered the question; but, they too had been confused. This guy called the BATF processing center to get clarification and they steered him in the right direction. So, I think you see why that question seems to me to be very misleading. Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script) Last edited by siegersallee; 06-11-2012 at 04:47 PM.

06-11-2012, 04:18 PM	#7
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	aptech77, Yes, I know...bureaucracy. But, at least you have a contact now and you can stay on top of the application as it grinds its way through the bowels of red tape. Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

06-11-2012, 01:32 PM	#3
aptech77 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 85 Thanks: 10 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Looks like I did it wrong. Do I have to wait, or can I send them a new copy the right way?

06-11-2012, 03:44 PM	#6
aptech77 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 85 Thanks: 10 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Ok, called them and she said wait until they process my payment, they will then assign a file number and I can make the corrections then. PITA......

06-11-2012, 09:59 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Just write in your information as an individual / I do think many folks over-think things like this That said, I personally have felt that a C&R collector accused of 'selling' as a biz could argue with showing the application form and saying, hey??? The C&R you get sent says can not be used to for a business. I think the first time I applied for one, I simply circled the individual and wrote my info in, but I don't remember....

06-14-2012, 08:21 AM	#9
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 792 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 36 Posts	Yea, I had a problem on my renewal....I don’t remember the the question was, but it was the supplemental form about US citizenship. I had my wife sign the form to verify I was a US citizen and apparently I didn’t need to fill out that form. However they did contact me by sending me a copy of the form and tell me to mark it N/A as I recall and send it back. I did and a few weeks later my renewed C&R came in the mail you would think, if "Amazon.com" can give me a list of all the stuff I have ordered over the last 6 years, the US government could check there database and see that I have been paying taxes etc.. for the last 40 years, filled out numberous U.S. Customs Declaration forms, have a valid U.S. Passport on file and/or look up my other C&R licenses on file and know I was a citizen ?? Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

06-14-2012, 08:10 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Richard, I had let my C&R lapse, and did a new one last summer

07-02-2012, 04:10 PM	#12
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	I'm legal!!! Ok, After the initial delay and problems, my application was entered into the system on 8 June and approved on 27 June. I received it today (2 July). All in all once it got into the system, the turn around was fairly quick. So, I am now legal! Thanks, to all who tolerated my moaning and complaining. I must say that once you get an examiner to talk to when there is a problem, everything moves much more quickly and smoother. Everyone with whom I dealt with were polite and tried their best (within the restraints of the system), to get my application processed. To anyone who is starting the process, be sure to review the links that I have provided. Also, there is good news. According to one of the examiners, the current form is being revamped. Apparently, question 9 is commonly misinterpreted. So there may be a newer more streamlined form in the future. Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

07-09-2012, 07:01 PM	#13
aptech77 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 85 Thanks: 10 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Well, despite me thinking I made some mistakes on the app. and calling every week to find out nothing, I got my license today. Guess it helped already being on the "radar" since I hold an FAA airframe and powerplant license w/ an inspection authorization endorsement and I deal with the feds bi weekly. Cheers, let's go shopping.

07-09-2012, 08:18 PM	#14
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Yeah, I found that staying in touch, making a personal contact, and being very polite and affable pays off. Keep the name of the examiner handy because when renewal time comes up they may be able to expedite the process since they have dealt with you before. __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

07-09-2012, 08:37 PM	#15
aptech77 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 85 Thanks: 10 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	That's exactly how it is with the FAA. I'm on a first name basis with my local FSDO.