Herman Goering's Personal Pistol

azlaw · 05-20-2012, 03:33 PM

Hey look, it's Herman Goering's Personal Pistol!

Only $8,000!

Act now!

H

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=285779574

alvin · 05-20-2012, 07:35 PM

One guy saw a Jade Buddy statue on a business trip (he collects those things and always pays attention to those stone stuff). The seller wanted $30,000. His offer was $500. The gap was too big, and the transaction could not go forward in the first day. 2nd day repeated the scene. On the 3rd day, he checked out of the hotel with his luggage, and passed the jade seller's store again. His offer was same, $500. The seller put the statue in his hands, "it's yours".

drbuster · 05-20-2012, 07:36 PM

It is known that Goering possessed many guns, both long and hand. I would personally doubt that he would be proud to have owned this Walther in such sorry shape! And not even gold plated!

sheepherder · 05-20-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

One guy saw a Jade Buddy statue on a business trip...

I've been looking for a jade Buddha statue since I first saw one back in 1971 on Okinawa...Well, not actually jade...I'm sure it was plaster...but I really wanted one with a clock in its belly...

Never have found one...Yet...

(But an AF buddy found this in a war surplus shop...but I don't think it's a Buddha...)

alanint · 05-20-2012, 09:47 PM

I'm amazed this is even out there. The seller makes ABSOLUTELY NO GOERING connection with the capture papers via serial number! And Goering must have been a real cowboy, as the holster is cut down for "quick draw" GI style pistol removal.

What a crock!!

pitsword · 05-20-2012, 10:43 PM

Strange, very strange. I always thought goering carried a 30-30 gauge, semi automatic, lever action, pump gun. It is so rare that it has never, ever shown up for sale, not even at Simpsons.

azlaw · 05-20-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

I intend to offer this only one time at the gunbroker site. After this it will be moved to a new venue.

So, maybe the local pawn shop then?

Actually I'm quite sure it's authentic. You can plainly see the peening on the magazine floor plate which could only come from pounding in miniature nails in his model railway at Karinhall.

And how could one even imagine that the flawless engraving was done one late night over beers at the Sears watch counter?

Such a pity that such a treasure has moved on to "another venue"....

H

alanint · 05-21-2012, 05:18 AM

Hey, guys...Look closely at the engraved inscription. They misspelled "Goring".

sheepherder · 05-21-2012, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Hey, guys...Look closely at the engraved inscription. They misspelled "Goring".

I've seen [read] the English translations of his name spelled both ways [Goering/Goring]; and with and without the umlaut...

Wikipedia spells it Goring...

(And a quick search shows both "Herman" and "Hermann")

I would have been more inclined to believe Goering's WW I carry pistol, whatever it might have been...{Flashback to "Flyboys", where the hero shoots down the Black Falcon with a French revolver)...

So...Since Goering was a WW I "ace", what would he have carried as a sidearm??? In his flying/WW I days...

alanint · 05-21-2012, 08:05 AM

Yes, I now have found both spellings as well. I wonder how he spelled it himself?
There is that famous film of him surrendering himself to US forces at the end of WW2 where he turns over a large framed S&W revolver.

Olle · 05-21-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Yes, I now have found both spellings as well. I wonder how he spelled it himself?
There is that famous film of him surrendering himself to US forces at the end of WW2 where he turns over a large framed S&W revolver.

It would be "Göring". I think this could possibly be a gift from Goering, but I seriously doubt that it's his personal gun.

sheepherder · 05-21-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

It would be "Göring". I think this could possibly be a gift from Goering, but I seriously doubt that it's his personal gun.

Maybe he ordered a couple hundred of them to give away...Like the US President & his 'signing pens'...

Olle · 05-21-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Maybe he ordered a couple hundred of them to give away...Like the US President & his 'signing pens'...

Yep, it's just a cheap pocket pistol with engraving that actually appears to be typical for that period, so I suspect it's kind of a "Here's a little something from the Luftwaffe" type of gift. If it's authentic (which I actually think it is), I'd suspect that it was more or less mass produced, and not necessarily handed out by Goering himself either.

alanint · 05-21-2012, 03:07 PM

Yet I have never seen another one turn up. My guess is that an occupying GI had it engraved in Germany immediately post war to boost his bragging rights.

siegersallee · 05-21-2012, 04:34 PM

I am reasonably knowledgeable in German (but, certainly no expert).

In the North, the umlaut was not really used. The sound was made when speaking; but, it was written with its non-umlauted two letters depending on the word.

The Third Reich "modernized" German. They did away with the Gothic alphabet and replace it with the Roman and simplified the non-umlauted German with umlauted equivalents.

The umlaut originated in the southern parts of Germany and Austria as did Hitler and the Nazi movement. So the umlaut would have been very familiar to them. They also associated the Gothic alphabet with the Old Prussian aristocracy which they wanted to marginalize for political reasons.

In modern German, names like Goethe have officially been replaced with the simplified: Göte (notice how the 'th' has been dropped in favor of the single’t’).

Now, having said all of that, you always can find exceptions and as I said I am no expert. But, everything I have said is true to the best of my knowledge.

So, my point in all of this is that a presentation Luger associated with Göring would not have the 'Goring' spelling (this is English) and, most likely, the older 'Goering' spelling would have been considerd im-proper German.

This is my humble 0.02USD worth.

Richard

siegersallee · 05-21-2012, 05:09 PM

Here is a presentation blade to 'Hermann Göring'.

Olle · 05-21-2012, 05:44 PM

"Göring" should be the correct spelling, and when you Google "Goering autograph" you'll find several examples of that Goering himself did write his name that way. It seems like this is what the engraving says too, but the picture is not good enough to tell for sure. Even if this is a genuine WWII engraving and spelled correctly, I'm sure that this pistol is not as significant as the seller states. It's just not the kind of pistol you would give to the head of the Luftwaffe.

Douglas Jr. · 05-21-2012, 09:03 PM

Well, besides the Göring spelling issue, his rank is written incorrectly: it should be Generalfeldmarschall, as a one single word.

He was promoted to Generalfeldmarschall on 04-Feb-1938) and to Reichsmarschall on 19-Jul- 1940.

Douglas.

Ron Wood · 05-21-2012, 11:39 PM

Look at the gun more carefully guys. The "o" does have an umlaut.

azlaw · 05-22-2012, 12:56 AM

Nobody has said anything about the "capture paper". I know these things had some variation, but there was a form, and this isn't it. Also, when did you see a form signed by a Major... one who didn't know his branch... or unit?

And what's this business about "firearms capable of being concealed on the person"? (Which this rather obviously is). Sounds like post 1968 Vietnam era language, not WWII.

And kind of an odd date too, right before the surrender, 3rd Army was moving pretty fast over the Rhine into Germany just then, busy time wasn't it? Would people be fooling around with capture papers? And in the wrong place too - wasn't it the 7th Army that took the Eagle's Nest?

Plus, usually I think of capture papers as being summer or later 1945 or into 1946.

Anybody know about capture papers?

H

05-20-2012, 03:33 PM	#1
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 207 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Herman Goering's Personal Pistol Hey look, it's Herman Goering's Personal Pistol! Only $8,000! Act now! H http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=285779574

05-20-2012, 09:47 PM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I'm amazed this is even out there. The seller makes ABSOLUTELY NO GOERING connection with the capture papers via serial number! And Goering must have been a real cowboy, as the holster is cut down for "quick draw" GI style pistol removal. What a crock!! Last edited by alanint; 05-21-2012 at 05:37 AM.

05-21-2012, 04:34 PM	#15
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Some points to consider... I am reasonably knowledgeable in German (but, certainly no expert). In the North, the umlaut was not really used. The sound was made when speaking; but, it was written with its non-umlauted two letters depending on the word. The Third Reich "modernized" German. They did away with the Gothic alphabet and replace it with the Roman and simplified the non-umlauted German with umlauted equivalents. The umlaut originated in the southern parts of Germany and Austria as did Hitler and the Nazi movement. So the umlaut would have been very familiar to them. They also associated the Gothic alphabet with the Old Prussian aristocracy which they wanted to marginalize for political reasons. In modern German, names like Goethe have officially been replaced with the simplified: Göte (notice how the 'th' has been dropped in favor of the single’t’). Now, having said all of that, you always can find exceptions and as I said I am no expert. But, everything I have said is true to the best of my knowledge. So, my point in all of this is that a presentation Luger associated with Göring would not have the 'Goring' spelling (this is English) and, most likely, the older 'Goering' spelling would have been considerd im-proper German. This is my humble 0.02USD worth. Richard

05-21-2012, 05:09 PM	#16
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Here is a presentation blade to 'Hermann Göring'. Attached Images

05-21-2012, 11:39 PM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Look at the gun more carefully guys. The "o" does have an umlaut. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-20-2012, 07:35 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	One guy saw a Jade Buddy statue on a business trip (he collects those things and always pays attention to those stone stuff). The seller wanted $30,000. His offer was $500. The gap was too big, and the transaction could not go forward in the first day. 2nd day repeated the scene. On the 3rd day, he checked out of the hotel with his luggage, and passed the jade seller's store again. His offer was same, $500. The seller put the statue in his hands, "it's yours".

05-20-2012, 07:36 PM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	It is known that Goering possessed many guns, both long and hand. I would personally doubt that he would be proud to have owned this Walther in such sorry shape! And not even gold plated!

05-20-2012, 10:43 PM	#6
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,964 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	Strange, very strange. I always thought goering carried a 30-30 gauge, semi automatic, lever action, pump gun. It is so rare that it has never, ever shown up for sale, not even at Simpsons.

05-21-2012, 05:18 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hey, guys...Look closely at the engraved inscription. They misspelled "Goring".

05-21-2012, 08:05 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Yes, I now have found both spellings as well. I wonder how he spelled it himself? There is that famous film of him surrendering himself to US forces at the end of WW2 where he turns over a large framed S&W revolver.

05-21-2012, 03:07 PM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Yet I have never seen another one turn up. My guess is that an occupying GI had it engraved in Germany immediately post war to boost his bragging rights.

05-21-2012, 05:44 PM	#17
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 664 Times in 318 Posts	"Göring" should be the correct spelling, and when you Google "Goering autograph" you'll find several examples of that Goering himself did write his name that way. It seems like this is what the engraving says too, but the picture is not good enough to tell for sure. Even if this is a genuine WWII engraving and spelled correctly, I'm sure that this pistol is not as significant as the seller states. It's just not the kind of pistol you would give to the head of the Luftwaffe.

05-21-2012, 09:03 PM	#18
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Well, besides the Göring spelling issue, his rank is written incorrectly: it should be Generalfeldmarschall, as a one single word. He was promoted to Generalfeldmarschall on 04-Feb-1938) and to Reichsmarschall on 19-Jul- 1940. Douglas.

05-22-2012, 12:56 AM	#20
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 207 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Nobody has said anything about the "capture paper". I know these things had some variation, but there was a form, and this isn't it. Also, when did you see a form signed by a Major... one who didn't know his branch... or unit? And what's this business about "firearms capable of being concealed on the person"? (Which this rather obviously is). Sounds like post 1968 Vietnam era language, not WWII. And kind of an odd date too, right before the surrender, 3rd Army was moving pretty fast over the Rhine into Germany just then, busy time wasn't it? Would people be fooling around with capture papers? And in the wrong place too - wasn't it the 7th Army that took the Eagle's Nest? Plus, usually I think of capture papers as being summer or later 1945 or into 1946. Anybody know about capture papers? H Last edited by azlaw; 05-22-2012 at 01:50 AM.