From RGuns - What did I get?

RadioHack · 03-26-2012, 10:30 PM

A hand pick, all matching from RGuns, I requested the earliest WW1 dated P08 they had. I don't know what I got, is it a 1908? Perhaps reworked by Simpson in 1930?, Is it Miltary or Commercial?

Help, bitte!

RadioHack · 03-26-2012, 10:42 PM

Another question, does the sear safety mean it was once issued to the Police? But since it has no magazine safety does that indicate it was transferred back to the military?

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2012, 10:46 PM

The frame has had a mag safety installed and has a sear safety..That part is Police..I can see a Crown N so a commercial pistol, no date on chamber.
What is on the toggle? It looks later like WW2. BYF-42-DWM?
There is an X over the serial number which looks like Russian.
Is the pistol matching?

TheRomanhistorian · 03-26-2012, 10:53 PM

Not even the 1920 mark and with the sear safety, very interesting. One wonders if they didn't quite get your request regarding the WWI bit. I don't suppose there's any unit markings?

RadioHack · 03-26-2012, 10:53 PM

More -

RadioHack · 03-26-2012, 10:57 PM

There's no mag safety, just a bit of corrosion in that spot.

MFC · 03-26-2012, 11:28 PM

#4261t is a 29DWM (made in 1929). The serial #'s were in the commercial range but, most went to the police or army. I suspect Jerry is correct about the mag safety. Many had the slot on the left frame flat filled in (welded). Is there a hole in the frame under the sideplate?

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2012, 11:51 PM

The proof on the right reciever is Weimar Army I believe? Deffinately Police Pistol. Quite a history there.

If that spot IS corrosion I could be wrong about the mag safety. Looked like it at first!

Out of wild curiosity..what did it cost?

Ron Wood · 03-26-2012, 11:52 PM

You did not get what you requested. It is not a WWI gun, in fact it it is considerably post-WWI.

Kohaku2416 · 03-27-2012, 12:05 AM

Very nice Luger, would love to hear more about it after you shoot it, as I have been thinking about ordering one of these to use as a "shooter".

Curly1 · 03-27-2012, 12:06 AM

http://www.rguns.net/pistols/semi-au...ls-other.shtml

RadioHack · 03-27-2012, 07:48 AM

Here's another pic, there's no cut for the magazine safety, I thought there had to be one, or am I wrong?

RadioHack · 03-27-2012, 07:52 AM

Is this a diamond in the rough?
Are these ones less common than WW1 or WW2 dated P08's?
Should I go through the hassle to send it back for a WW1 dated P08 as I wanted?
Try to get a partial refund?
Just keep it?

alanint · 03-27-2012, 09:05 AM

Not all Police pistols were fitted for the magazine safety. In my opinion, the Weimar era is as interesting, historically, as the First World War. This pistol witnessed the upheaval of an entire society and the rise of Adolph Hitler.
I, personally, would not exchange it.

mrerick · 03-27-2012, 03:20 PM

HI CJ,

You got a rather interesting Luger from R-Guns. Considerably more rare than the Military DWMs from WW-I. To be clear, this one was newly manufactured by DWM, and would not have been a Simson rework.

Was the barrel a replacement? Is that corrosion that was welded over where the serial number normally is found? Did it originally have a different number, or match the rest of the pistol? Does the witness mark line up?

If you replace grips, keep the originals. You can find members here that can repair the chip on the front of the left grip if you want that done. They may also be matching...

The notion of what is "collectable" can change over time. A RC Luger with this interesting a background would be, in my opinion, worth holding on to.

Marc

alvin · 03-27-2012, 05:54 PM

One side story.

If it were in Beijing, this one would definitely be a multi-thousand-dollar piece. Back a few years ago, I heard from members of another forum, a local gun lover bought a CZ-652 (? is there such a model?) from a museum worker. Paid equivalent of USD$3000-$4000 for it. Originally, the museum did not even notice that they lost a gun, they got too many guns and the management was poor. But this guy got this Czech pistol, too excited, could not control himself from practicing it in a street physical fighting.....

Gun value is related with environment.

MFC · 03-27-2012, 11:35 PM

I still think this gun may have had a mag safety. The corrosion may be pits from a weld to fill the slot. Is there a hole through the frame under the sideplate? If so, there was a mag safety installed in the past. Also the left grip looks like it was inlet for a mag safety and may be original to the gun. Check for the hole...

RadioHack · 03-28-2012, 07:44 AM

I plan to strip it down and clean it out this weekend, so I'll snap some more pics of what I find. Thanks for all all the advice!

sheepherder · 04-01-2012, 09:01 AM

CJ -

Did you contact RGuns and inform them that the Luger you received was not what you had requested???

Removing the sideplate will show if a mag safety was ever installed. (There will be a hole). Your sideplate does have the cut commonly done to clear the mag safety (pic attached).

Don't be dismayed if the Luger you received is a Russian captured & VoPo refurbished pistol. The work was done by skilled armorers in the East Bloc, some of whom are reputed to be original Mauser Werke employees...

BTW: Is there an import mark [stamp] on it somewhere??? We'd be interested in the placement...

RadioHack · 04-01-2012, 07:58 PM

It does have the safety hole drilled, however the cut on the sideplate was smaller than I'd ever seen and was so well welded up that I mistook it at first for a spot of corrosion. It is

I did call RGuns, they basically shrugged and said send it back, the person I spoke to said the owner might refund my shipping costs. They could not tell me what replacement they might send to me as their stock was low and they would have to go look in the warehouse. But, they were too short handed that day to go look straightaway. Call back tomorrow and they might have more time.

I asked for a copy of their FFL to put in the box if I decided to return it, they said they don't do that, just mail it back. I asked about a RTV number or any type of reference No. to track it once they got it back, they said the don't do that, just "mail" it back.

I decided to keep it and never deal with RGuns again.

It's a great Luger P08, not what I expected, but it goes well with my MK.I* Inglis Hi Power.
I'll keep searching for a WW1 P08 to match my Webley .455

New grips are on the way for it, a couple of MecGar Mags, a repro holster, after a while I may send it off to Thor to be refinished. I'll take it too the range next week and post a report on how it shoots, the barrel's bore is pristine!

03-26-2012, 10:30 PM	#1
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	From RGuns - What did I get? A hand pick, all matching from RGuns, I requested the earliest WW1 dated P08 they had. I don't know what I got, is it a 1908? Perhaps reworked by Simpson in 1930?, Is it Miltary or Commercial? Help, bitte! Attached Thumbnails

03-26-2012, 10:42 PM	#2
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	More Pics Another question, does the sear safety mean it was once issued to the Police? But since it has no magazine safety does that indicate it was transferred back to the military? Attached Thumbnails

03-26-2012, 10:46 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	The frame has had a mag safety installed and has a sear safety..That part is Police..I can see a Crown N so a commercial pistol, no date on chamber. What is on the toggle? It looks later like WW2. BYF-42-DWM? There is an X over the serial number which looks like Russian. Is the pistol matching? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-26-2012, 10:53 PM	#5
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	And More Pics... More - Attached Thumbnails

03-26-2012, 11:28 PM	#7
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	#4261t is a 29DWM (made in 1929). The serial #'s were in the commercial range but, most went to the police or army. I suspect Jerry is correct about the mag safety. Many had the slot on the left frame flat filled in (welded). Is there a hole in the frame under the sideplate? __________________ Mike C.

03-26-2012, 10:53 PM	#4
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Not even the 1920 mark and with the sear safety, very interesting. One wonders if they didn't quite get your request regarding the WWI bit. I don't suppose there's any unit markings? __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

03-26-2012, 10:57 PM	#6
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	There's no mag safety, just a bit of corrosion in that spot.

03-26-2012, 11:51 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	The proof on the right reciever is Weimar Army I believe? Deffinately Police Pistol. Quite a history there. If that spot IS corrosion I could be wrong about the mag safety. Looked like it at first! Out of wild curiosity..what did it cost? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-26-2012, 11:52 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,036 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,247 Times in 1,720 Posts	You did not get what you requested. It is not a WWI gun, in fact it it is considerably post-WWI. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-27-2012, 12:05 AM	#10
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Very nice Luger, would love to hear more about it after you shoot it, as I have been thinking about ordering one of these to use as a "shooter".

03-27-2012, 12:06 AM	#11
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 125 Thanked 715 Times in 372 Posts	http://www.rguns.net/pistols/semi-au...ls-other.shtml __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

03-27-2012, 07:48 AM	#12
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	No cut for magazine safety Here's another pic, there's no cut for the magazine safety, I thought there had to be one, or am I wrong? Attached Thumbnails

03-27-2012, 07:52 AM	#13
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Is this a diamond in the rough? Are these ones less common than WW1 or WW2 dated P08's? Should I go through the hassle to send it back for a WW1 dated P08 as I wanted? Try to get a partial refund? Just keep it?

03-27-2012, 09:05 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Not all Police pistols were fitted for the magazine safety. In my opinion, the Weimar era is as interesting, historically, as the First World War. This pistol witnessed the upheaval of an entire society and the rise of Adolph Hitler. I, personally, would not exchange it.

03-27-2012, 03:20 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	HI CJ, You got a rather interesting Luger from R-Guns. Considerably more rare than the Military DWMs from WW-I. To be clear, this one was newly manufactured by DWM, and would not have been a Simson rework. Was the barrel a replacement? Is that corrosion that was welded over where the serial number normally is found? Did it originally have a different number, or match the rest of the pistol? Does the witness mark line up? If you replace grips, keep the originals. You can find members here that can repair the chip on the front of the left grip if you want that done. They may also be matching... The notion of what is "collectable" can change over time. A RC Luger with this interesting a background would be, in my opinion, worth holding on to. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-27-2012, 05:54 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	One side story. If it were in Beijing, this one would definitely be a multi-thousand-dollar piece. Back a few years ago, I heard from members of another forum, a local gun lover bought a CZ-652 (? is there such a model?) from a museum worker. Paid equivalent of USD$3000-$4000 for it. Originally, the museum did not even notice that they lost a gun, they got too many guns and the management was poor. But this guy got this Czech pistol, too excited, could not control himself from practicing it in a street physical fighting..... Gun value is related with environment.

03-27-2012, 11:35 PM	#17
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	I still think this gun may have had a mag safety. The corrosion may be pits from a weld to fill the slot. Is there a hole through the frame under the sideplate? If so, there was a mag safety installed in the past. Also the left grip looks like it was inlet for a mag safety and may be original to the gun. Check for the hole... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Mike C.

03-28-2012, 07:44 AM	#18
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I plan to strip it down and clean it out this weekend, so I'll snap some more pics of what I find. Thanks for all all the advice!

04-01-2012, 09:01 AM	#19
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,196 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	CJ - Did you contact RGuns and inform them that the Luger you received was not what you had requested??? Removing the sideplate will show if a mag safety was ever installed. (There will be a hole). Your sideplate *does* have the cut commonly done to clear the mag safety (pic attached). Don't be dismayed if the Luger you received is a Russian captured & VoPo refurbished pistol. The work was done by skilled armorers in the East Bloc, some of whom are reputed to be original Mauser Werke employees... BTW: Is there an import mark [stamp] on it somewhere??? We'd be interested in the placement... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-01-2012, 07:58 PM	#20
RadioHack User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It does have the safety hole drilled, however the cut on the sideplate was smaller than I'd ever seen and was so well welded up that I mistook it at first for a spot of corrosion. It is I did call RGuns, they basically shrugged and said send it back, the person I spoke to said the owner might refund my shipping costs. They could not tell me what replacement they might send to me as their stock was low and they would have to go look in the warehouse. But, they were too short handed that day to go look straightaway. Call back tomorrow and they might have more time. I asked for a copy of their FFL to put in the box if I decided to return it, they said they don't do that, just mail it back. I asked about a RTV number or any type of reference No. to track it once they got it back, they said the don't do that, just "mail" it back. I decided to keep it and never deal with RGuns again. It's a great Luger P08, not what I expected, but it goes well with my MK.I* Inglis Hi Power. I'll keep searching for a WW1 P08 to match my Webley .455 New grips are on the way for it, a couple of MecGar Mags, a repro holster, after a while I may send it off to Thor to be refinished. I'll take it too the range next week and post a report on how it shoots, the barrel's bore is pristine!