My Family Luger, please help identify

thor179 · 03-12-2012, 08:06 AM

I am a little confused as how to ask a question on this site. My Grandfather was a merchant marine (US) in the 1920's. The past is a bit shaky as some of the Family was from Austria prior to WW1. His Luger is now in the hands of my parents with the intent to hand it down to me. Funny thing is he Spoke German and was fluent in it but had No accent when he spoke English having spent most of his life (if not all) in England and the US. He actually spent 1 year in prison in London as a suspect for the Lusitania sinking! Anyway the Luger has the DWM marking as well as a small crown with a N under it on the barrel with a 747 under that with a mark that looks like a 7 jammed next to a backwards S. it is a 9mm, the piece has the original wooden tabbed clip and seems in really great shape. My dad fired it for a clip or 2 and it is in perfect firing condition. Any help getting the age of it would be appreciated. I am trying to get and estimate of value for insurance purposes as i am not planning on selling it.

mrerick · 03-12-2012, 10:18 AM

Hi Paul, and welcome to the forum.

First, I'd recommend adding a new topic to the new collector's forum instead of adding on to an unrelated thread.

The crown over N stamp would normally be a "nitro proof" which was done for commercially sold pistols in Germany.

I'm not sure what you're looking at from the description, but would ask for sharp photos of the markings and overall pictures of the pistol in any case.

It would be wise to avoid firing it in case it's a collectable pistol. Rare ones go for $thousands and the value plummets when a numbered part is broken.

Not so rare Lugers and those that have mis-matched parts or that have been refinished can be valued from $400 up.

Is there a serial number on the front of the frame above the trigger guard?

Are there markings on top of the receiver? On the left or right sides of the receiver?

If you take photos, use a tripod, and indirect (shaded) light. Don't use a flash. Take closeups using the camera's closeup or macro setting.

Marc

John D. · 03-12-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hi Paul, and welcome to the forum.

First, I'd recommend adding a new topic to the new collector's forum instead of adding on to an unrelated thread....

I can help with that

As well, Paul - welcome to the Lugerforum!

John

thor179 · 03-13-2012, 08:35 AM

Some pics.

thor179 · 03-13-2012, 08:38 AM

I believe everything is the same serial number and the gun was kept under lock and key for about 40 years and assumed to have been kept that way for many years prior. I am guessing that since it has the Stock receiver that it is from 1914 or later?

thor179 · 03-13-2012, 08:39 AM

My Father did fire a few rounds out of it a few years back and used 38 Cal. So I am unsure of the correct size.

thor179 · 03-13-2012, 08:46 AM

More pix

thor179 · 03-13-2012, 08:48 AM

the Luger was kept with an old F&W 32cal. and a newspaper clipping of his arrest in London.

Douglas Jr. · 03-13-2012, 09:56 AM

Paul,

You Grandpas Luger is what is called "Alphabet Luger", a commercial model. It means it is a Luger produced by DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionfabriken) after 1921/22. Until that date, serial numbers for Commercial pistols were consecutive and, by then, were at the 92,000 range. After that date, they changed to the military numering system of 10,000 guns blocks followed by a letter suffix - this is your Luger.

Yours bears the "GERMANY" stamp and that means that this gun was already made for the US marked. Commercial pistols chambered for 9mm Luger are uncommon, as most were chambered for .30 Luger (a.k.a. 7,65 mm Luger). Your pistols seems to be in original condition, with a good amount of bluing and strawing.

I'm sure others can add more and a precise evaluation.

Douglas.

MFC · 03-14-2012, 12:03 AM

Hi Paul,
Welcome to the forum.
As stated by Douglas, your grandfathers Luger is a DWM Alphabet commercial (formerly known as a 1920 commercial). According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers, it was made in the second half of 1924. The letter under the serial # is an 'n'. It is a suffix and is part of the S#. The full S# is 747n.
Very nice family heirloom.

thor179 · 03-14-2012, 08:49 AM

he was in between the USA and the UK often, could it have been purchased in either location or is it just a USA purchase???

wlyon · 03-14-2012, 09:22 AM

My guess would be a US purchase. Bill

sheepherder · 03-14-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

My guess would be a US purchase. Bill

+1

It is my understanding that if purchased in the UK it would have the UK firing proof on it...IOW, somewhere on the barrel it would have stampings like the attached pic...If it was purchased legally...

(I recall reading an article once that stated that de-mobbing British troops were told the strict penalties of smuggling weapons into England on the ferry ride across the Channel...The author went on to say you could almost walk across the Channel on the pistols & other weapons dumped overboard by alarmed soldiers)...

Fritzer · 03-14-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

(I recall reading an article once that stated that de-mobbing British troops were told the strict penalties of smuggling weapons into England on the ferry ride across the Channel...The author went on to say you could almost walk across the Channel on the pistols & other weapons dumped overboard by alarmed soldiers)...

HA! I have the flip-side to that story. As told to me, my dad as young sailor on shore leave in WW2 FOUND his luger in a tidal pool on the coast of France. A complete mis-matched, missing grips and most of the magazine bottom. the grips and mag bottom were fashioned on ship from some mahogany he also scrounged. I still have it, the way he put it together.

alvin · 03-14-2012, 04:27 PM

Gun Collector's Digest #5 had an article on British commercial proof. Those long text of how many TONS etc on barrel was post 1955. The BNP stamp was introduced in 1955 as well. Before 1955, they used other text.

The 1955 rule is copied here:

-- NOT ENGLISH MAKE was eliminated
-- The viewmarks were eliminated
-- Birmingham proof and nitro proof combined into BNP
-- Caliber, cartridge case length, pressure added

03-12-2012, 08:06 AM	#1
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My Family Luger, please help identify I am a little confused as how to ask a question on this site. My Grandfather was a merchant marine (US) in the 1920's. The past is a bit shaky as some of the Family was from Austria prior to WW1. His Luger is now in the hands of my parents with the intent to hand it down to me. Funny thing is he Spoke German and was fluent in it but had No accent when he spoke English having spent most of his life (if not all) in England and the US. He actually spent 1 year in prison in London as a suspect for the Lusitania sinking! Anyway the Luger has the DWM marking as well as a small crown with a N under it on the barrel with a 747 under that with a mark that looks like a 7 jammed next to a backwards S. it is a 9mm, the piece has the original wooden tabbed clip and seems in really great shape. My dad fired it for a clip or 2 and it is in perfect firing condition. Any help getting the age of it would be appreciated. I am trying to get and estimate of value for insurance purposes as i am not planning on selling it.

03-12-2012, 10:18 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Paul, and welcome to the forum. First, I'd recommend adding a new topic to the new collector's forum instead of adding on to an unrelated thread. The crown over N stamp would normally be a "nitro proof" which was done for commercially sold pistols in Germany. I'm not sure what you're looking at from the description, but would ask for sharp photos of the markings and overall pictures of the pistol in any case. It would be wise to avoid firing it in case it's a collectable pistol. Rare ones go for $thousands and the value plummets when a numbered part is broken. Not so rare Lugers and those that have mis-matched parts or that have been refinished can be valued from $400 up. Is there a serial number on the front of the frame above the trigger guard? Are there markings on top of the receiver? On the left or right sides of the receiver? If you take photos, use a tripod, and indirect (shaded) light. Don't use a flash. Take closeups using the camera's closeup or macro setting. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-13-2012, 08:35 AM	#4
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some pics. Attached Thumbnails

03-13-2012, 08:46 AM	#7
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More pix Attached Thumbnails

03-14-2012, 12:03 AM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Paul, Welcome to the forum. As stated by Douglas, your grandfathers Luger is a DWM Alphabet commercial (formerly known as a 1920 commercial). According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers, it was made in the second half of 1924. The letter under the serial # is an 'n'. It is a suffix and is part of the S#. The full S# is 747n. Very nice family heirloom. __________________ Mike C.

03-13-2012, 08:38 AM	#5
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I believe everything is the same serial number and the gun was kept under lock and key for about 40 years and assumed to have been kept that way for many years prior. I am guessing that since it has the Stock receiver that it is from 1914 or later?

03-13-2012, 08:39 AM	#6
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My Father did fire a few rounds out of it a few years back and used 38 Cal. So I am unsure of the correct size.

03-13-2012, 08:48 AM	#8
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the Luger was kept with an old F&W 32cal. and a newspaper clipping of his arrest in London.

03-13-2012, 09:56 AM	#9
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Paul, You Grandpas Luger is what is called "Alphabet Luger", a commercial model. It means it is a Luger produced by DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionfabriken) after 1921/22. Until that date, serial numbers for Commercial pistols were consecutive and, by then, were at the 92,000 range. After that date, they changed to the military numering system of 10,000 guns blocks followed by a letter suffix - this is your Luger. Yours bears the "GERMANY" stamp and that means that this gun was already made for the US marked. Commercial pistols chambered for 9mm Luger are uncommon, as most were chambered for .30 Luger (a.k.a. 7,65 mm Luger). Your pistols seems to be in original condition, with a good amount of bluing and strawing. I'm sure others can add more and a precise evaluation. Douglas.

03-14-2012, 08:49 AM	#11
thor179 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: NY Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	he was in between the USA and the UK often, could it have been purchased in either location or is it just a USA purchase???

03-14-2012, 09:22 AM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	My guess would be a US purchase. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-14-2012, 04:27 PM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Gun Collector's Digest #5 had an article on British commercial proof. Those long text of how many TONS etc on barrel was post 1955. The BNP stamp was introduced in 1955 as well. Before 1955, they used other text. The 1955 rule is copied here: -- NOT ENGLISH MAKE was eliminated -- The viewmarks were eliminated -- Birmingham proof and nitro proof combined into BNP -- Caliber, cartridge case length, pressure added