getting started

joe7047 · 12-28-2011, 09:58 AM

i posted this in the wrong place before.

looking for my first luger

Hello,
I’m new to the luger and would like to collect 2 pistols. I’m thinking one to be a Kreighoff, but since I’m new to this, I don’t know what year I should look for, a “G, “S”,“P” or some other model. Is a 38 more collectable than a 42. Should I be looking for a numbered model with 1 or 2 matching mags or is one matching mag adequate. As I said , I only would like just one Kreighoff. I also think that for my other model, I should look for a “black widow”. Now, is one year more collectable than another year. again I’m thinking of collectible and value. Is there a big difference if I should look for a “rig” or just the guns alone.
I have looked at Phoenix investment arms, Legacy Collectables and Simpson.
Any advise is welcome.

DavidJayUden · 12-28-2011, 10:21 AM

Joe:
Welcome aboard.
I know nothing of Phoenix Investiment Arms, but both Legacy and Simpson have stellar reputations, and considering the level that you are planning to invest, I'd say that you will need to deal directly with a fully reputable organization.
Of course 2 matching mags. is always preferrable to 1, however the chances of them having been altered also goes up exponentially, as does price. Like the sign over Craig Breedlove's workshop read: "Speed costs money; How fast can you afford to go?"
It seems that "Black Widow" is simply an ingenious marketing ploy to make the late war Lugers with plastic grips a collector's market in their own, and I don't know that 41's are more or less collectable than 42's.
Full rigs seem to be worth the sum value of their parts, not more, so that one is a matter of personal choice. To me I like to seem them in holsters, but that is just me.
I'll let others comment on the Kreighoff quesions, as that is way out of my pay-grade.
dju

alanint · 12-28-2011, 10:23 AM

Welcome to the forum!

If your budget is adequate, a full rig with two matching mags is always the pinnacle of standard Lugers, a little better if it also has bringback papers and a verified story.

In general, the fewer Lugers made in a particular year makes them more desirable than years with a large production. For the nazi era, Krieghoffs, G and K dates are the most desirable. In the end, you have to decide what motivates you; the historical significance, the rarety, the investment potential, the condition or simply the look of a certain pistol.

mrerick · 12-28-2011, 10:59 AM

Collectors value Luger pistols most highly when they are as close as possible to the original manufactured state. Very high percentage full original finish coverage with all matching parts in excellent working condition.

It takes time to learn how to judge these things. The more rare and desirable a pistol is, the more likely it is that someone will try and fake it.

Since there were many eras and different countries that used uniquely marked and manufactured Lugers, there are many ways you can focus collecting.

Manufacturing quantities for most unique Luger configurations are known. The combination of rarity, condition and demand determine valuation and also potential for increase in value if the pistol is properly maintained.

Since you're discussing quite valuable pistols, consider getting the appropriate reference books and studying them before buying anything. You'll save money in the end and have some unique skills for the future.

Yes, the collector reference books are expensive, and many are out of print. They are still the best way to approach what you want to do.

Marc

spartacus38 · 12-28-2011, 11:05 AM

Hi Joe,
Looks like you are ready to spend $10000 or more on 2 Lugers. How much have you spent on
Luger books? Do you have a knowledgeable mentor? How will you know if the guns are original?
Spartacus38@charter.net
Bob

joe7047 · 12-28-2011, 11:35 PM

first of all, thank you all for the replies. i have spent some time doing some research, but look to those who have more knowledge them me in finding what i think may be right. after some thought, i will look and wait for a "G" model kreighoff. as far as the black widow goes, the comment about it being a marketing tool may be noteworthy. i will do some more research, hopefully find new reputable dealers and eventually get what i'm looking for.
thanks again,
joe

spartacus38 · 12-29-2011, 12:24 AM

Joe,
Do you have any idea what a G model Krieghoff costs?
Bob

joe7047 · 12-29-2011, 03:22 PM

there is one listed on phoenix investment arms for 18950. it has a krieghoff magazine but the numbers don't match. patients is a virture.
joe

Norme · 12-29-2011, 03:41 PM

Hi Joe, In your first post you asked for advice, here's mine:
1/ If you're really planning on spending five figures on a gun, you should do as others have suggested, and spend a few hundred on reference books first.
2/ As you have noted, patience is a virtue. Since you are only planning on buying two guns, you should wait until that ideal specimen becomes available.
3/ If you are the kind of investor who dabbles in mortgage backed securities and Greek Government Bonds, then Phoenix Investment Arms is the dealer for you. If not, then Simpson, Ltd., Legacy Collectibles, and Pre98 would be a better bet.
Good luck, Norm

joe7047 · 12-30-2011, 09:23 AM

norm,
i am not a dabbling investor. i buy because i like something and keep it. but i am looking for dealers to look at and dealers to stay away from. i also will buy some reference books.
thanks
joe

JRS · 12-31-2011, 09:56 AM

Joe,

Since you say you like to buy what you like, my advice to you would be to decide initially which route you want to take: collector or shooter. I started acquiring Lugers about a year ago and when I started out, my goal was to get a Luger from each manufacturer. I dove in without doing much research and quickly realized financially that I would not be able to reach my goal.

That occurred when I came across the prices for Simson and Krieghoff Lugers. So, I shifted gears and confined my purchases to Lugers that aesthetically appealed to me, such as 1920 commercials and later American Eagles. I stayed under a $2,000 limit and bought most of them from Simpson Ltd. in Illinois. I'm happy with all my Lugers and haven't gone broke. I don't know how deep your pockets are, but if you have unlimited resuorces, go ahead and take the Krieghoff plunge.

12-28-2011, 09:58 AM	#1
joe7047 User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	getting started i posted this in the wrong place before. looking for my first luger Hello, I’m new to the luger and would like to collect 2 pistols. I’m thinking one to be a Kreighoff, but since I’m new to this, I don’t know what year I should look for, a “G, “S”,“P” or some other model. Is a 38 more collectable than a 42. Should I be looking for a numbered model with 1 or 2 matching mags or is one matching mag adequate. As I said , I only would like just one Kreighoff. I also think that for my other model, I should look for a “black widow”. Now, is one year more collectable than another year. again I’m thinking of collectible and value. Is there a big difference if I should look for a “rig” or just the guns alone. I have looked at Phoenix investment arms, Legacy Collectables and Simpson. Any advise is welcome.

12-28-2011, 10:59 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Collectors value Luger pistols most highly when they are as close as possible to the original manufactured state. Very high percentage full original finish coverage with all matching parts in excellent working condition. It takes time to learn how to judge these things. The more rare and desirable a pistol is, the more likely it is that someone will try and fake it. Since there were many eras and different countries that used uniquely marked and manufactured Lugers, there are many ways you can focus collecting. Manufacturing quantities for most unique Luger configurations are known. The combination of rarity, condition and demand determine valuation and also potential for increase in value if the pistol is properly maintained. Since you're discussing quite valuable pistols, consider getting the appropriate reference books and studying them before buying anything. You'll save money in the end and have some unique skills for the future. Yes, the collector reference books are expensive, and many are out of print. They are still the best way to approach what you want to do. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-28-2011, 10:21 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Joe: Welcome aboard. I know nothing of Phoenix Investiment Arms, but both Legacy and Simpson have stellar reputations, and considering the level that you are planning to invest, I'd say that you will need to deal directly with a fully reputable organization. Of course 2 matching mags. is always preferrable to 1, however the chances of them having been altered also goes up exponentially, as does price. Like the sign over Craig Breedlove's workshop read: "Speed costs money; How fast can you afford to go?" It seems that "Black Widow" is simply an ingenious marketing ploy to make the late war Lugers with plastic grips a collector's market in their own, and I don't know that 41's are more or less collectable than 42's. Full rigs seem to be worth the sum value of their parts, not more, so that one is a matter of personal choice. To me I like to seem them in holsters, but that is just me. I'll let others comment on the Kreighoff quesions, as that is way out of my pay-grade. dju

12-28-2011, 10:23 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Welcome to the forum! If your budget is adequate, a full rig with two matching mags is always the pinnacle of standard Lugers, a little better if it also has bringback papers and a verified story. In general, the fewer Lugers made in a particular year makes them more desirable than years with a large production. For the nazi era, Krieghoffs, G and K dates are the most desirable. In the end, you have to decide what motivates you; the historical significance, the rarety, the investment potential, the condition or simply the look of a certain pistol.

12-28-2011, 11:05 AM	#5
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Hi Joe, Looks like you are ready to spend $10000 or more on 2 Lugers. How much have you spent on Luger books? Do you have a knowledgeable mentor? How will you know if the guns are original? Spartacus38@charter.net Bob

12-28-2011, 11:35 PM	#6
joe7047 User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	first of all, thank you all for the replies. i have spent some time doing some research, but look to those who have more knowledge them me in finding what i think may be right. after some thought, i will look and wait for a "G" model kreighoff. as far as the black widow goes, the comment about it being a marketing tool may be noteworthy. i will do some more research, hopefully find new reputable dealers and eventually get what i'm looking for. thanks again, joe

12-29-2011, 12:24 AM	#7
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Joe, Do you have any idea what a G model Krieghoff costs? Bob

12-29-2011, 03:22 PM	#8
joe7047 User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	there is one listed on phoenix investment arms for 18950. it has a krieghoff magazine but the numbers don't match. patients is a virture. joe

12-29-2011, 03:41 PM	#9
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Joe, In your first post you asked for advice, here's mine: 1/ If you're really planning on spending five figures on a gun, you should do as others have suggested, and spend a few hundred on reference books first. 2/ As you have noted, patience is a virtue. Since you are only planning on buying two guns, you should wait until that ideal specimen becomes available. 3/ If you are the kind of investor who dabbles in mortgage backed securities and Greek Government Bonds, then Phoenix Investment Arms is the dealer for you. If not, then Simpson, Ltd., Legacy Collectibles, and Pre98 would be a better bet. Good luck, Norm

12-30-2011, 09:23 AM	#10
joe7047 User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	norm, i am not a dabbling investor. i buy because i like something and keep it. but i am looking for dealers to look at and dealers to stay away from. i also will buy some reference books. thanks joe

12-31-2011, 09:56 AM	#11
JRS User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Joe, Since you say you like to buy what you like, my advice to you would be to decide initially which route you want to take: collector or shooter. I started acquiring Lugers about a year ago and when I started out, my goal was to get a Luger from each manufacturer. I dove in without doing much research and quickly realized financially that I would not be able to reach my goal. That occurred when I came across the prices for Simson and Krieghoff Lugers. So, I shifted gears and confined my purchases to Lugers that aesthetically appealed to me, such as 1920 commercials and later American Eagles. I stayed under a $2,000 limit and bought most of them from Simpson Ltd. in Illinois. I'm happy with all my Lugers and haven't gone broke. I don't know how deep your pockets are, but if you have unlimited resuorces, go ahead and take the Krieghoff plunge.