1938 S/42 P-08 Side plate markings.

maritz01 · 11-01-2011, 11:34 PM

Side plate has an a inscription like a j.

1938 S/42 P-08
Serial number 4592 no block letter.
Upper serial number 4514, no block letter,
4592 - 4514 = 78 difference in serial number.
8, 81 bore gage.
2 magazines one with wooden floor plate with a proof mark and serial number 9809.
The other magazine is a typical magazine with no serial number.
Black P-08 hard shell holster has 77 on the back side.

My father brought it back from the war and I'm now looking into getting more information on it.

Thanks

Mike

Edward Tinker · 11-02-2011, 12:28 AM

Mike, welcome to the forum.

Not sure what a typical no marking base is.... is it black bakelite, or wood or aluminum?

Sounds like two GI's sitting around cleaning weapons and got parts mixed up or a put together from parts.

The numbers being close is good, but could be coincidence?

The sideplate looks like a erfurt (WW1) era sideplate.

Do you know of any story of how your dad got it or anything (see my signature for why

)

The 1938 is the year, the S/42 is Mauser and the land to land grooves is the 8,81 marking.

Ed

DavidJayUden · 11-02-2011, 07:47 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't I seeing 92 on the frame number too? Like you have a top from one on a lower from another? Check the trigger, take down, and all internals.
Also, is that an Erfurt stamp on the side plate?
dju

alanint · 11-02-2011, 08:11 AM

It appears that the entire bottom and sideplate are matched WW1 Erfurt (see stamp on trigger guard) and the entire top is a matched Mauser S42, lending great credence to Ed's theory that this was swapped from two matched pistols by GIs or similar.

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 01:35 PM

The lower on the trigger guard you can see the Wehrmacht stamp. As to the upper the proof stamps are the same as all other WW2 that I've seen. As to the other magazine (typical magazine) it is aluminum with no serial number. My father was a paratrooper 501PIR/Dog Co/101st Airborne Division and picked this up off a German during the battle of Carantan. I always though it was weird with the different serial numbers. As a kid I remember seeing the paperwork for this and the Spreerwerks P-38 he also picked up, some how they disappeared.

Once field stripped the upper and lower internal parts all match to the perspective upper (except for the trigger which has 80 on it). I personally think with the difference in the serial number being only 78 (4592 lower / 4514upper) and the WW2 proof marks they were swapped out by mistake. Who knows for example maybe after qualifing and the guys were cleaning their weapons and somehow got switched out. Afterall this would make the two different serial numbers the same batch made and than shipped out to be issued to the troops.

Again the proof marks and other stamps all look like WW2 but whats up with the marking on the sideplate. I don't believe it to be a WW1 lower with that Wehrmacht stamp.

Thanks for the replies.

Mike

DavidJayUden · 11-02-2011, 03:22 PM

I'm thinking that more photos are in order here. A side shot of the rear toggle pin area of the gun, good photos of the front frame number and any accompanying marks, maybe a good closeup of the numbers and face of the takedown lever, and the numbers on the inside of the side plate and trigger. Also, look for any more of the markings like the one just ahead of the numbers on the side plate, including on the grip screws.
dju

alanint · 11-02-2011, 04:40 PM

Also, a good shot of the stamp on the front trigger guard. I have never seen a WW2 Eagle stamped on a trigger guard before.

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 04:46 PM

I'll try and get to posting more pictures later this evening. In this 3rd picture from the top you can see the eagle stamp on it. I have a K98 Mauser with the same stamp on the barrel.

Mike

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 08:17 PM

Here are pictures of the 1938 S/42 Luger field stripped. The first picture shows a German Infantry Assault Badge, Wound Badge along with the Luger and holster my father liberated off the German soldier.

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 08:23 PM

More pictures of the field stripped 1938 S/42.

Mike

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 08:28 PM

More pictures of the 1938 S/42. The only different number I've seen is that the trigger has 80 on it. Also have 2 holsters for this. One that came with it in brown which is pretty beaten up. It was made in 1916 (inside flap of holster). My uncle told me that my father wore it until he got back to England than wore it again during Market Garden. During the Ardennes (Bulge) he got the black holster from a friend.
Thanks for looking.

Mike

DavidJayUden · 11-02-2011, 09:15 PM

OK, I'd deferring to others. Seems that we have a Mauser lower, a Mauser upper from a different gun, and a totally different trigger. Am I, or am I not, seeing an Erfurt marking ahead of the number on the side plate? Reworked side plate?
dju

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 10:18 PM

Figured since I posted just about everything might as well post the brown holster too. Why just mention it I guess.

Mike

Norme · 11-02-2011, 10:36 PM

Hi Mike, The holster you showed in post #5 is kinda interesting. It looks like it could be a converted WW1 Artillery holster. Could you post a well lit, and in focus, photo of the back? Regards, Norm

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 10:42 PM

Norm,

The brown one? The black one has 77 on the back.

Mike

Edward Tinker · 11-02-2011, 10:47 PM

Mike, there are guys on here who have seen thousands of lugers.

I have never seen a german eagle marked there on the trigger guard before, WW1 markings yes.

The sideplate is a WW1

The gun may be mismatched because your dad and another guy got their parts mixed up or it may very well be that a luger was put together by a german armorer on the front before D-Day, although unsure why a luger would be made from 2-4 gun parts that early during the invasion. Anything is possible.

I would like to put this into vol III if you'd like, I give credit to the original author, just would need hi-rez photos sent to my email, 3-4 photos of the gun and other items and any info (like above)

email is ed_tinker@hotmail.com
.
.

Norme · 11-02-2011, 10:49 PM

Hi Mike, Both your holsters look black to me, that's why I said "well lit". The one I'm interested in is the one with the empty stitch holes shown in post #5. Regards, Norm
P.S. Sorry, post #9.

maritz01 · 11-02-2011, 11:28 PM

Well until I get the camera from my daughter this will have to do for now.

Norme · 11-03-2011, 08:38 AM

Geez Mike, You've got photos of two different holsters, both of which appear to be black, mixed up together. One of them was converted from a WW1 Artillery holster (shortened), and dated 1916 (or possibly1918). It originally looked like the one shown below. When you do post better pictures, please keep the two holsters separate. Regards, Norm

glock30 · 11-03-2011, 09:46 AM

Ed can you shed some light on why a Mauser has strawed parts, did the early Banners have this?

11-02-2011, 12:28 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	Mike, welcome to the forum. Not sure what a typical no marking base is.... is it black bakelite, or wood or aluminum? Sounds like two GI's sitting around cleaning weapons and got parts mixed up or a put together from parts. The numbers being close is good, but could be coincidence? The sideplate looks like a erfurt (WW1) era sideplate. Do you know of any story of how your dad got it or anything (see my signature for why ) The 1938 is the year, the S/42 is Mauser and the land to land grooves is the 8,81 marking. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-02-2011, 10:47 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	Mike, there are guys on here who have seen thousands of lugers. I have never seen a german eagle marked there on the trigger guard before, WW1 markings yes. The sideplate is a WW1 The gun may be mismatched because your dad and another guy got their parts mixed up or it may very well be that a luger was put together by a german armorer on the front before D-Day, although unsure why a luger would be made from 2-4 gun parts that early during the invasion. Anything is possible. I would like to put this into vol III if you'd like, I give credit to the original author, just would need hi-rez photos sent to my email, 3-4 photos of the gun and other items and any info (like above) email is ed_tinker@hotmail.com . . __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-02-2011, 07:47 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't I seeing 92 on the frame number too? Like you have a top from one on a lower from another? Check the trigger, take down, and all internals. Also, is that an Erfurt stamp on the side plate? dju

11-02-2011, 08:11 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	It appears that the entire bottom and sideplate are matched WW1 Erfurt (see stamp on trigger guard) and the entire top is a matched Mauser S42, lending great credence to Ed's theory that this was swapped from two matched pistols by GIs or similar.

11-02-2011, 01:35 PM	#5
maritz01 User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MA Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The lower on the trigger guard you can see the Wehrmacht stamp. As to the upper the proof stamps are the same as all other WW2 that I've seen. As to the other magazine (typical magazine) it is aluminum with no serial number. My father was a paratrooper 501PIR/Dog Co/101st Airborne Division and picked this up off a German during the battle of Carantan. I always though it was weird with the different serial numbers. As a kid I remember seeing the paperwork for this and the Spreerwerks P-38 he also picked up, some how they disappeared. Once field stripped the upper and lower internal parts all match to the perspective upper (except for the trigger which has 80 on it). I personally think with the difference in the serial number being only 78 (4592 lower / 4514upper) and the WW2 proof marks they were swapped out by mistake. Who knows for example maybe after qualifing and the guys were cleaning their weapons and somehow got switched out. Afterall this would make the two different serial numbers the same batch made and than shipped out to be issued to the troops. Again the proof marks and other stamps all look like WW2 but whats up with the marking on the sideplate. I don't believe it to be a WW1 lower with that Wehrmacht stamp. Thanks for the replies. Mike Last edited by maritz01; 11-05-2011 at 05:29 PM.

11-02-2011, 03:22 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm thinking that more photos are in order here. A side shot of the rear toggle pin area of the gun, good photos of the front frame number and any accompanying marks, maybe a good closeup of the numbers and face of the takedown lever, and the numbers on the inside of the side plate and trigger. Also, look for any more of the markings like the one just ahead of the numbers on the side plate, including on the grip screws. dju

11-02-2011, 04:40 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Also, a good shot of the stamp on the front trigger guard. I have never seen a WW2 Eagle stamped on a trigger guard before.

11-02-2011, 04:46 PM	#8
maritz01 User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MA Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll try and get to posting more pictures later this evening. In this 3rd picture from the top you can see the eagle stamp on it. I have a K98 Mauser with the same stamp on the barrel. Mike

11-02-2011, 09:15 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	OK, I'd deferring to others. Seems that we have a Mauser lower, a Mauser upper from a different gun, and a totally different trigger. Am I, or am I not, seeing an Erfurt marking ahead of the number on the side plate? Reworked side plate? dju

11-02-2011, 10:36 PM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Mike, The holster you showed in post #5 is kinda interesting. It looks like it could be a converted WW1 Artillery holster. Could you post a well lit, and in focus, photo of the back? Regards, Norm

11-02-2011, 10:42 PM	#15
maritz01 User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: MA Posts: 10 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norm, The brown one? The black one has 77 on the back. Mike

11-02-2011, 10:49 PM	#17
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Mike, Both your holsters look black to me, that's why I said "well lit". The one I'm interested in is the one with the empty stitch holes shown in post #5. Regards, Norm P.S. Sorry, post #9.

11-03-2011, 09:46 AM	#20
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Ed can you shed some light on why a Mauser has strawed parts, did the early Banners have this?