Curious DWM Luger with a Crown on the receiver from TURKEY

evrenay · 07-16-2011, 05:36 PM

Hello,

I showed this pistol to Mr Mauro Baudino before. Unfortunately we couldn't find a proper explanation for the crown on the receiver.

For me it looks like a Erfurt Crown, however might also me a "M" Marine stamp.

Again I will try to upload some of the photos have taken to Lugerforum. If the resolution is not very good then I will also take Photobucket.

Photos with the crown are in my second message

evrenay · 07-16-2011, 05:40 PM

Remaining photos

evrenay · 07-21-2011, 04:07 PM

Hello folks,

no ideas about this Luger? Have you seen something like this before?

What is your comment on the Crown on receiver?

Ron Smith · 07-21-2011, 04:48 PM

Hello Evren,

I've seen a similar Luger. I believe that it was a discussion which took place some time ago , either on this forum, or Jan Still's forum.

I don't think the origin of the Crown on the chamber was ever discovered. Although I recall that it could have been done on a small run of Lugers intended for awards, or a private contract which was later sent to the Army. My memory on the subject is very faint, and I could be wrong.

I don't believe it is a Navy / Marine crown. The Navy crown has a cross within the crown itself and is of a different design. It is a military style Imperial Crown, so most likely Army connected.

I would love to find one like yours. It's very unique...

Ron

Balder · 07-22-2011, 06:37 AM

Looks like an Erfurt crown to me.

Balder

Norme · 07-22-2011, 07:49 AM

Hi Evren, Does this gun have a stock lug? Is it fitted with a hold-open? Regards, Norm
P.S. Please provide a clearer photo of the inspection marks on the right receiver.

sheepherder · 07-22-2011, 08:15 AM

Are you selling those T-shirts???

*****************************

I recall the discussion on that crown chamber mark...It wasn't all that long ago...

alanint · 07-22-2011, 08:23 AM

The crown as a symbol was taken very seriously back then and would not have been applied lightly to anything.

Is there any possibility the guns thus marked were meant for a Royal household guard of some kind?

evrenay · 07-24-2011, 05:11 PM

Dear Alaint,

my friend (police commisar) who sold this pistol to another friend, told me that he heard that these Lugers with a crown on them are meant fot he royal household. I don't know but it looks like a Erfurt Crown to me.
I sent the photos to Mr Mauro Baudino for sometime ago, may be he opened a topic and posted the photos of this particular Luger.

Dear Ron, it is really very unique, I have never seen a Luger with such a stamp on the chamber, however can we be sure about it's authenticity?

Dear postino,

I did not understand what you mean? What T-Shirts?

DavidJayUden · 07-24-2011, 06:20 PM

The Istanbul t-shirt used in the background.
dju

Vlim · 07-25-2011, 07:43 AM

I wonder which royal household would use second hand German military pistols?

This pistol was originally a military accepted P08. The chamber date was removed and replaced with the crown. Anyway, I wouldn't look at one of the more important (read: wealthy) royal houses, but more at second or third rate royalty. After WW1.

evrenay · 07-26-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

The Istanbul t-shirt used in the background.
dju

It is not a t-shirt, it is a textile bag given to my wife by the German Consul of Istanbul (there was something inside, I can not remember now). I sometimes use the German flag as background, when I take photos of Lugers.

Dear Vlim,

so you mean that a low grade royal family bought this pistol and let the date be removed and stamped it with their own symbol (crown) ?

Actually, this crown looks really like the Erfurt Crown. At first sight I thought one of our North Anatolian gun smiths made a crown stamp and applied it on this pistol. However the crown is too good made to be fake (I suppose).

In other words, should we accept this gun as a royal family pistol, if yes can anyone help to find out to which royal family it belongs?

Norme · 07-26-2011, 02:08 PM

Hi Evren, My theory, for what it's worth, is that this Luger was one of a small lot made by DWM in 1912/13, with a generic crown stamped chamber, in the hope of securing a Turkish order. We could narrow down the production date if we knew whether this gun has a hold-open and stock lug. Regards, Norm

Vlim · 07-26-2011, 02:11 PM

Here is a good place to get started

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_royal_crowns

It actually seems to resemble the Romanian crown ...

Lugerdoc · 07-27-2011, 11:32 AM

I agree with MIM; military accepted and date later remove. TH

07-16-2011, 05:36 PM	#1
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Curious DWM Luger with a Crown on the receiver from TURKEY Hello, I showed this pistol to Mr Mauro Baudino before. Unfortunately we couldn't find a proper explanation for the crown on the receiver. For me it looks like a Erfurt Crown, however might also me a "M" Marine stamp. Again I will try to upload some of the photos have taken to Lugerforum. If the resolution is not very good then I will also take Photobucket. Photos with the crown are in my second message Attached Thumbnails

07-16-2011, 05:40 PM	#2
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Remaining photos Attached Thumbnails

07-21-2011, 04:48 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hello Evren, I've seen a similar Luger. I believe that it was a discussion which took place some time ago , either on this forum, or Jan Still's forum. I don't think the origin of the Crown on the chamber was ever discovered. Although I recall that it could have been done on a small run of Lugers intended for awards, or a private contract which was later sent to the Army. My memory on the subject is very faint, and I could be wrong. I don't believe it is a Navy / Marine crown. The Navy crown has a cross within the crown itself and is of a different design. It is a military style Imperial Crown, so most likely Army connected. I would love to find one like yours. It's very unique... Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-22-2011, 07:49 AM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Evren, Does this gun have a stock lug? Is it fitted with a hold-open? Regards, Norm P.S. Please provide a clearer photo of the inspection marks on the right receiver. Last edited by Norme; 07-22-2011 at 08:28 AM. Reason: P.S.

07-22-2011, 08:15 AM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Are you selling those T-shirts??? ***************************** I recall the discussion on that crown chamber mark...It wasn't all that long ago... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-21-2011, 04:07 PM	#3
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Hello folks, no ideas about this Luger? Have you seen something like this before? What is your comment on the Crown on receiver?

07-22-2011, 06:37 AM	#5
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Looks like an Erfurt crown to me. Balder

07-22-2011, 08:23 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The crown as a symbol was taken very seriously back then and would not have been applied lightly to anything. Is there any possibility the guns thus marked were meant for a Royal household guard of some kind?

07-24-2011, 05:11 PM	#9
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Dear Alaint, my friend (police commisar) who sold this pistol to another friend, told me that he heard that these Lugers with a crown on them are meant fot he royal household. I don't know but it looks like a Erfurt Crown to me. I sent the photos to Mr Mauro Baudino for sometime ago, may be he opened a topic and posted the photos of this particular Luger. Dear Ron, it is really very unique, I have never seen a Luger with such a stamp on the chamber, however can we be sure about it's authenticity? Dear postino, I did not understand what you mean? What T-Shirts?

07-24-2011, 06:20 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The Istanbul t-shirt used in the background. dju

07-25-2011, 07:43 AM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	I wonder which royal household would use second hand German military pistols? This pistol was originally a military accepted P08. The chamber date was removed and replaced with the crown. Anyway, I wouldn't look at one of the more important (read: wealthy) royal houses, but more at second or third rate royalty. After WW1.

07-26-2011, 02:08 PM	#13
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Evren, My theory, for what it's worth, is that this Luger was one of a small lot made by DWM in 1912/13, with a generic crown stamped chamber, in the hope of securing a Turkish order. We could narrow down the production date if we knew whether this gun has a hold-open and stock lug. Regards, Norm

07-26-2011, 02:11 PM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Here is a good place to get started http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_royal_crowns It actually seems to resemble the Romanian crown ...

07-27-2011, 11:32 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I agree with MIM; military accepted and date later remove. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net