Anatomy Of A 1920 Luger Carbine

cirelaw · 04-29-2011, 11:34 AM

I got up the nerve to take apart my 1920 luger carbine. All matching. Simply beautiful. No inport markings anywhere for whatever that means!

alanint · 04-29-2011, 11:45 AM

Interesting that the Luger carbine provided a sight on the rear toggle while the artillery did away with this due to the barrel mounted sight.

cirelaw · 04-29-2011, 01:00 PM

I'm trying to research this serial number to find out where it fell and any significantce it might have.

lfid · 04-29-2011, 01:22 PM

also interesting it is long frame with short receiver and what looks like a spacer between the barrel mount flange and the receiver

does # on the receiver front lug ( bottom of the slide at front ) match last part of the frame serial ? ie = 31 or 231 ?

thanks for sharing pictures
Bill

cirelaw · 04-29-2011, 01:58 PM

Every single one is '31' including the stock. I'm not exactly sure to what part you reffering but I'm sure its '31'!

George Anderson · 04-29-2011, 04:14 PM

Stock irons on 1920 carbines I have seen or had never were numbered. No DWM numbered stock was ever numbered with just the last two digits unless it was a two digit serial number gun.

cirelaw · 04-29-2011, 04:36 PM

George you may be right do you notice any more modifications? You opinions are priceless especially You can smell a rat and at the very least question what you feel are questionable! I will fiurther investigate your very valued concern!

drbuster · 04-30-2011, 09:53 AM

I was of the impressions that 1920 carbines were generally made up from left over parts from WW1 and fell into the grouping of the 1920 commercials. The long frame may have been from a Navy or Swiss luger, the rest just beeing cobbled together. Many of these 1920 carbines possess their own unique features. I don't believe that they were in any way "faked" although later "mechanics" could have made some.

George Anderson · 04-30-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbuster

I don't believe that they were in any way "faked" although later "mechanics" could have made some.

Is there a difference?

cirelaw · 04-30-2011, 10:54 AM

I decided to let you decide. There is just one serial number, no inport marks. I did blowups of the frame... The stock lug might me funky! ps You have a rare opportunity to correct luger history.

drbuster · 04-30-2011, 11:01 AM

In response to George's question: "Nope!"

lugerholsterrepair · 04-30-2011, 11:51 AM

My question is why is there a t suffix on the underside of the compensator?

cirelaw · 04-30-2011, 12:53 PM

I found a reference in French in Henrotins book. Can anyone translate? Merci Boucoup!

guns3545 · 04-30-2011, 01:22 PM

Eric,

I will not make a literal translation but will try to help.

The gun displayed in Henrotin is a Navy Carbine as can be found described in Kenyon on Pages 190/191. The verbiage is almost identical between the two authors.

But..this is not your gun. Your carbine displays all the characteristics of the 1920 Carbine. Externally, just looking at the forearm tells you that. Checkering and attachment are different in the two variations.

I am puzzled by the SN. Others on this forum, much more knowledgeable about the period will tell you that the SN falls in the DWM29 period and is literally in the middle of the range in Dwight's list that is dominated by Police sear safety guns.

Again, apologies but this is not my area of expertise so I cannot even speculate on the similarities of the SN on your carbine and the range of DWM SNs that are documented.

DWM were pretty careful about not producing guns that had the same SN unlike the Swiss who in the early days could have multiple guns with the same SN, e.g. the saga of the standard issue Military, the "A" series and the 'E" series. But I digress.

Sorry not to be of further help.

John

cirelaw · 04-30-2011, 01:35 PM

The only thing that I question is the lack of "GERMANY" Was it geered to domestic use? There also remain the "31' on the stock lug. It was pointed out that a mere 2 digit imprint was incorrect. Merci!

wlyon · 04-30-2011, 01:41 PM

My best guess is someone made this up and stamped the numbers to match. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 04-30-2011, 01:57 PM

Eric, What is the number in the very bottom of your forearm?

cirelaw · 04-30-2011, 02:10 PM

'31' the same on all the parts

cirelaw · 04-30-2011, 02:21 PM

What would be correct??

guns3545 · 04-30-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

The only thing that I question is the lack of "GERMANY" Was it geered to domestic use? There also remain the "31' on the stock lug. It was pointed out that a mere 2 digit imprint was incorrect. Merci!

Eric,

Good points. I am less concerned about the lack of "Germany" as these guns were made for many markets that did not require a statement of origin. But you are correct in that most guns shipped to the USA would have had Made in Germany or Germany stamped on them.

But..as I wrote, the serial number and the numbering is a puzzle.

John

04-29-2011, 11:34 AM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Anatomy Of A 1920 Luger Carbine I got up the nerve to take apart my 1920 luger carbine. All matching. Simply beautiful. No inport markings anywhere for whatever that means! Attached Thumbnails

04-29-2011, 01:00 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I'm trying to research this serial number to find out where it fell and any significantce it might have. Attached Thumbnails

04-29-2011, 01:58 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Every single one is '31' including the stock. I'm not exactly sure to what part you reffering but I'm sure its '31'! Attached Thumbnails

04-30-2011, 10:54 AM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I decided to let you decide. There is just one serial number, no inport marks. I did blowups of the frame... The stock lug might me funky! ps You have a rare opportunity to correct luger history. Attached Thumbnails

04-30-2011, 11:51 AM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	My question is why is there a t suffix on the underside of the compensator? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-29-2011, 11:45 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Interesting that the Luger carbine provided a sight on the rear toggle while the artillery did away with this due to the barrel mounted sight.

04-29-2011, 01:22 PM	#4
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	also interesting it is long frame with short receiver and what looks like a spacer between the barrel mount flange and the receiver does # on the receiver front lug ( bottom of the slide at front ) match last part of the frame serial ? ie = 31 or 231 ? thanks for sharing pictures Bill

04-29-2011, 04:14 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Stock irons on 1920 carbines I have seen or had never were numbered. No DWM numbered stock was ever numbered with just the last two digits unless it was a two digit serial number gun.

04-29-2011, 04:36 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	George you may be right do you notice any more modifications? You opinions are priceless especially You can smell a rat and at the very least question what you feel are questionable! I will fiurther investigate your very valued concern!

04-30-2011, 09:53 AM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	I was of the impressions that 1920 carbines were generally made up from left over parts from WW1 and fell into the grouping of the 1920 commercials. The long frame may have been from a Navy or Swiss luger, the rest just beeing cobbled together. Many of these 1920 carbines possess their own unique features. I don't believe that they were in any way "faked" although later "mechanics" could have made some.

04-30-2011, 11:01 AM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	In response to George's question: "Nope!"

04-30-2011, 12:53 PM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I found a reference in French in Henrotins book. Can anyone translate? Merci Boucoup! Attached Thumbnails

04-30-2011, 01:22 PM	#14
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 435 Thanks: 649 Thanked 490 Times in 216 Posts	Eric, I will not make a literal translation but will try to help. The gun displayed in Henrotin is a Navy Carbine as can be found described in Kenyon on Pages 190/191. The verbiage is almost identical between the two authors. But..this is not your gun. Your carbine displays all the characteristics of the 1920 Carbine. Externally, just looking at the forearm tells you that. Checkering and attachment are different in the two variations. I am puzzled by the SN. Others on this forum, much more knowledgeable about the period will tell you that the SN falls in the DWM29 period and is literally in the middle of the range in Dwight's list that is dominated by Police sear safety guns. Again, apologies but this is not my area of expertise so I cannot even speculate on the similarities of the SN on your carbine and the range of DWM SNs that are documented. DWM were pretty careful about not producing guns that had the same SN unlike the Swiss who in the early days could have multiple guns with the same SN, e.g. the saga of the standard issue Military, the "A" series and the 'E" series. But I digress. Sorry not to be of further help. John

04-30-2011, 01:35 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank you ever so much! The only thing that I question is the lack of "GERMANY" Was it geered to domestic use? There also remain the "31' on the stock lug. It was pointed out that a mere 2 digit imprint was incorrect. Merci!

04-30-2011, 01:41 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	My best guess is someone made this up and stamped the numbers to match. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-30-2011, 01:57 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Eric, What is the number in the very bottom of your forearm? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-30-2011, 02:10 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	'31' the same on all the parts

04-30-2011, 02:21 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What would be correct??