Seldom seen M prefix DWM

Hugo Borchardt · 10-05-2010, 10:34 AM

Per Mr. Still's Weimar and Early Nazi Lugers page 243.

Poor shape with replaced takedown lever, but I love "anomolies" like this one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=192865367#PIC

Don M · 10-05-2010, 01:02 PM

The E/H and E/WaA66 acceptances are typical of those found on 29 DWMs that were issued to the Prussian Landjägerei.

Hugo Borchardt · 10-05-2010, 02:02 PM

Don:

Thanks. By 29 do you mean 1929, or that only 29 pistols were issued?

Clark

Don M · 10-05-2010, 03:50 PM

Clark,

I can understand your confusion. I was using the term "29 DWM" that was coined by Jan Still to refer to the Lugers manufactured by DWM/BKIW in 1929 bearing the suffixes "s," "t" and "u." Most of these pistols went to the Prussian police, including the Landjägerei, the rural police. Many but not all of these pistols have the E/H and E/WaA66 acceptance stamps on the right side of the receiver.

sheepherder · 10-05-2010, 06:20 PM

It appears to have the DWM logo on the toggle, but an artillery sight notch on the receiver...

Lugerdoc · 10-06-2010, 12:03 PM

The notched receiver is not unusual on post WW1 military & police pistols, as DWM was using up their left over WW1 LPO8 receivers. TH

goldwing · 10-17-2010, 02:18 AM

I now own this luger and am fasinated by unusual and low serial numbers. The one thing you did not cover is--What is the mea

ning of the M prefix on the SN? a new member and new comer to Lugers. Bill Hughes

Edward Tinker · 10-17-2010, 06:36 AM

Well Bill, all ya gotta do is ask

The "m" suffix is the letter block, i.e. for most military and police (and some commericiial varaitions), the suffix appears every 10,000 lugers;

so, 1-9999 is made THAT year and then its 1a, 2a etc, sometimes folks will say; and I have a really early luger because it is sn 345 / well, depends on the year doesn't it

Some things to check out, go to the FAQ and see at the top of each forum, but especially the New Collectors area and read the items at the top, i.e. "stickies"

Welcome to the forum!

Ed

mrerick · 10-17-2010, 10:54 AM

Ed, The "m" is not a suffix as we normally see on Lugers. It's a serial number prefix. See the attached picture from Gunbroker.

Marc

goldwing · 10-17-2010, 12:34 PM

Marc, Thanks for posting the photo, I don't have the gun in my possession yet. Everyone seems to miss the word Prefix and read it as suffix Bill

sheepherder · 10-17-2010, 01:09 PM

Also has the "Crown/N" on barrel & receiver...Originally a commercial Luger???

William Hull · 10-17-2010, 04:01 PM

I don't believe I have ever seen a receiver cut for the artillery barrel that has E/H and WaA66?

Don,
Is this very common in your police data?
thanks,

William

ps Nice buy

goldwing · 10-17-2010, 10:26 PM

catfishguns, Thanks for starting this Thread. It has answered many question I had on this new acquiction but one answer still remains unanswered. What is the meaning if any of the PREFIX M on the SN on this gun. The SN is M81. Thanks all. Bill Hughes

William Hull · 10-18-2010, 01:02 PM

Bill,
Look in Still's Weimar Lugers at pages 243 and 244. It doesn't answer the question you are looking for but does show another example. It also lists that when the book was printed, M10, M9, M26 and M28 were the only known examples. Your M81 is far from the grouping of the known examples.
With so few examples, the meaning may never be known.

William

goldwing · 10-18-2010, 01:22 PM

William, Thanks for the great information. Now to find a copy of that book.. I understand that Still's Weimar Lugers is now out of print.

Bill Hughes

Badmoonrisen · 04-24-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hull

Bill,
Look in Still's Weimar Lugers at pages 243 and 244. It doesn't answer the question you are looking for but does show another example. It also lists that when the book was printed, M10, M9, M26 and M28 were the only known examples. Your M81 is far from the grouping of the known examples.
With so few examples, the meaning may never be known.

William

When someone figures this out please let me know also....I have a numbers matching, non dated DMW Luger with a m91 serial number

Don M · 10-18-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hull

I don't believe I have ever seen a receiver cut for the artillery barrel that has E/H and WaA66?

Don,
Is this very common in your police data?

William, it is not common and I don't recall ever seeing one before. These acceptances are typically found on the 29DWMs that were issued to the police.

mrerick · 10-18-2010, 09:35 PM

Could this have been a shop reference model used for testing the setting of gauges?

Marc

sheepherder · 04-24-2011, 10:45 PM

Too bad nobody copied the pics to LugerForum...GB has purged the auction...

Too bad...

Badmoonrisen · 04-25-2011, 12:49 PM

My pics are here....look at thread "I'm new & confused" the pics are OK and you can definitely see my M91 serial number

Thanx.................Pete

I don't know how to link my thread to this one

10-05-2010, 10:34 AM	#1
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Seldom seen M prefix DWM Per Mr. Still's Weimar and Early Nazi Lugers page 243. Poor shape with replaced takedown lever, but I love "anomolies" like this one. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=192865367#PIC __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

10-05-2010, 01:02 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	The E/H and E/WaA66 acceptances are typical of those found on 29 DWMs that were issued to the Prussian Landjägerei. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-05-2010, 02:02 PM	#3
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Don: Thanks. By 29 do you mean 1929, or that only 29 pistols were issued? Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

10-05-2010, 03:50 PM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Clark, I can understand your confusion. I was using the term "29 DWM" that was coined by Jan Still to refer to the Lugers manufactured by DWM/BKIW in 1929 bearing the suffixes "s," "t" and "u." Most of these pistols went to the Prussian police, including the Landjägerei, the rural police. Many but not all of these pistols have the E/H and E/WaA66 acceptance stamps on the right side of the receiver. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

10-05-2010, 06:20 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	It appears to have the DWM logo on the toggle, but an artillery sight notch on the receiver... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-06-2010, 12:03 PM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	The notched receiver is not unusual on post WW1 military & police pistols, as DWM was using up their left over WW1 LPO8 receivers. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-17-2010, 02:18 AM	#7
goldwing User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Upper South Carolina Posts: 92 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	M prefix on serial number I now own this luger and am fasinated by unusual and low serial numbers. The one thing you did not cover is--What is the meaning of the M prefix on the SN? a new member and new comer to Lugers. Bill Hughes

10-17-2010, 06:36 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,607 Times in 2,123 Posts	Well Bill, all ya gotta do is ask The "m" suffix is the letter block, i.e. for most military and police (and some commericiial varaitions), the suffix appears every 10,000 lugers; so, 1-9999 is made THAT year and then its 1a, 2a etc, sometimes folks will say; and I have a really early luger because it is sn 345 / well, depends on the year doesn't it Some things to check out, go to the FAQ and see at the top of each forum, but especially the New Collectors area and read the items at the top, i.e. "stickies" Welcome to the forum! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-17-2010, 12:34 PM	#10
goldwing User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Upper South Carolina Posts: 92 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	Marc, Thanks for posting the photo, I don't have the gun in my possession yet. Everyone seems to miss the word Prefix and read it as suffix Bill

10-17-2010, 01:09 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	Also has the "Crown/N" on barrel & receiver...Originally a commercial Luger??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-17-2010, 04:01 PM	#12
William Hull User Join Date: May 2008 Location: south central Kentucky--Tompkinsville Posts: 33 Thanks: 22 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	I don't believe I have ever seen a receiver cut for the artillery barrel that has E/H and WaA66? Don, Is this very common in your police data? thanks, William ps Nice buy

10-17-2010, 10:26 PM	#13
goldwing User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Upper South Carolina Posts: 92 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	M PREFIX sn luger catfishguns, Thanks for starting this Thread. It has answered many question I had on this new acquiction but one answer still remains unanswered. What is the meaning if any of the PREFIX M on the SN on this gun. The SN is M81. Thanks all. Bill Hughes

10-18-2010, 01:02 PM	#14
William Hull User Join Date: May 2008 Location: south central Kentucky--Tompkinsville Posts: 33 Thanks: 22 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Bill, Look in Still's Weimar Lugers at pages 243 and 244. It doesn't answer the question you are looking for but does show another example. It also lists that when the book was printed, M10, M9, M26 and M28 were the only known examples. Your M81 is far from the grouping of the known examples. With so few examples, the meaning may never be known. William

10-18-2010, 01:22 PM	#15
goldwing User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Upper South Carolina Posts: 92 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	M preffix serial numbers William, Thanks for the great information. Now to find a copy of that book.. I understand that Still's Weimar Lugers is now out of print. Bill Hughes

10-18-2010, 09:35 PM	#18
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,925 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,139 Times in 1,520 Posts	Could this have been a shop reference model used for testing the setting of gauges? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-24-2011, 10:45 PM	#19
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	Too bad nobody copied the pics to LugerForum...GB has purged the auction... Too bad... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-25-2011, 12:49 PM	#20
Badmoonrisen User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 7 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My pics are here....look at thread "I'm new & confused" the pics are OK and you can definitely see my M91 serial number Thanx.................Pete I don't know how to link my thread to this one