Bulgarian Mystery

[Herb]

One of the Lugers in my collection has mystified me for many years. It is a Bulgarian 1908 Commercial Model. It does not have the upper lanyard loop or well nor a stock lug. It does have the drill holes for the lower loop but there is no loop there. The grips are of the standard military style and cover the lower lanyard loop holes. The mystery is that there are no proof marks whatsoever on this piece. It has a five digit commercial serial number in the 50,000 range. The number appears in it's entirety on the front of the frame and under the barrel. The last two digits of the serial number appear on almost all of the smaller parts, with the exception of the trigger side plate which has three numbers, only the first of which appear in the full serial number. There are several small (1mm) numbers that appear on several places on the frame and a .8 that is on the lower side of the barrel frame. Most markings that are normal are missing, ie; no date, no manufactures markings, no land markings on the barrel (8.81--8.85). The only possible markings are in the forward frame housing, a 'G' over 351. I visited with Ralph Shattuk about 6 years ago and he agrees that it does appear to be a Bulgarian commercial but he was unable to provide any other info. I have the following references: Jones, Datig, Kenyon, Walter and Costanzo and only Datig comes close but the serial nember range for a Bulgarian commercial is not accurate. The machining of this pistol is immaculate, it is of a high luster as if it had been polished but under a jewlers loop all of the maching marks are there. It has some 'plum' color on the rear of the barrel frame and there is no 'straw' on any of the bright parts. The extractor has the Bulgarian Cryllic markings but the safety well does not although it is milled where it shoud be. All of the internal parts are as new, brightly blued and unused. The main spring is of the new type being coiled rather than leaf. The magazine has a black plastic bottom, a coiled spring and is marked with the Mauser banner on the backstrap and is of a very high polish. This Luger appears to have come off the assembly line yesterday, it is the most beautiful one I have ever seen. I can't sleep trying to guess what this is, It's getting on my nerves, HELP ME, what is this thing??

Herb, Due to the lack of a stock lug on the frame with no grip safety, it sounds as though you have a M1908 Commerical frame with a Mismatched or renumbered M08 Bulgarian top, that has been polished and reblued. Tom h

Herb, In thinking about it, it does sound like your frame is in fact an 08 Bulgarian with the safety markings milled out and renumbered to the standard 1908 Commerical range. Your receiver should have the DWM logo over the chamber where a production date would appear on a standard P08 and the center toggle link should have a rampant lion, in place of the standard DWM logo. Sounds like an interesting parts gun. Perhaps reworked by the Bulgarian during WW2, when they were converting their earlier 7.65mm models to 9mm.

[Herb]

Tom, there is no indication tht anything has been polished as all of the original machining marks are there under the bluing, they are just so fine that it appears to be polished. The bluing is the same overall, same dark color inside and out on all parts, no indication of parts being replaced or mismatched and the last two digits of the serial number match everywhere except the side plate and the frame and barrel have the full number.

[Johnny Peppers]

The original blue would have been a rust blue which would have been rather flat rather than shiney. Sounds more like your pistol has had a hot salt blue at some time. As Tom Heller indicated, many of these pistols were reworked to 9mm in the 1940 time frame. This would account for a salt blue finish rather than a rust blue.

[Herb]

That's what makes this thing so confusing. Looking at the top of the chamber under a glass there is no indication that anything ever existed there. The milling lines go from one side to the other, unbroken, and the bolt is the same, nothing except the last two digits of the serial number on the rear under the sight blade. The bolt also has the last two numbers stamped on the left side and in the small well to the rear of the firing pin. I was just looking at it again and noticed something that I hadn't seen before. The extractor, which is blued the same color as everything else, also has what appears to be milling marks matching those of the top of the bolt. I think this thing may have been refinished using a wire wheel or perhaps and emory cloth that makes it look like super fine milling marks. This may account for the perfect exterior, but what about the interior? It would be nearly impossible to do that to the inside. All of the internal parts are original, no indication of any buffing or polishing at all, they just look brand new and everything has that perfect blue on it except the holdopen, ejector and safety bar. No indication of wear on anything!

[Kyrie]

Hi Folks,


Purely as a data point a rust blue doesnâ??t have to be dull - it can be every bit as shiny as a holt salt blue. The luster of the firearm after bluing (regardless of whether the blue is cold rust or hot salt) is determined by the level of buffing prior to the bluing process.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Johnny Peppers]

The original 1908 Bulgarians had the standard DWM rust blue which was rather flat, and I was merely making the point that the original pistol would not have had a high polish finish.

[John Sabato]

Now gentlemen , please holster those weapons


kind regards,


-JS

[Kyrie]

I understand


However we need to remember that DWM had two different finishes when it came to blue. The military pistols were not highly buffed prior to bluing and as a result generally had a somewhat dull luster after bluing. The Commercial pistols were highly buffed and had a high luster finish after bluing. If the Luger in question is a commercial pistol Iâ??d expect it to have a high luster finish.


Kyrie

[Johnny Peppers]

We must alwo remember that DWM never highly buffed their pistols before finish. The finish varies from gun to gun, and some militaries may show more polish than than a commercial of the same time frame. DWM's re-done in Bubba's Gun Shop will show a high polish. If you see a DWM with a high polish finish you had better suspect that it has been redone.

The best example of the difference in the appearance of rust blue and salt blue is on the 1934/06 Mauser Swiss Commercial with the rust blued frame/receiver and salt blued barrel. It is readily apparent that the barrel has more shine than the frame and receiver, and this was not due to the frame and receiver not being adequately polished.

If the pistol is a rust blue wouldnâ??t it have some white on the interior. To me this seems to be a salt blue where the whole pistol is blued (inside and out) which would put it in the rework category around the WW2 period (or possible later). I am not too knowledgeable in the luger area so correct me if I am wrong (I am more a P.38 kind of guy). It would be nice to see some pictures of the pistol; itâ??s always nice to see something new. Thanks to herb to bringing along an interesting subject. Jr

[Herb]

I take some pictures of it (35mm) and try to get them on the forum, have a scanner but never tried to e-mail or upload anything. Will be awhile to get the prints back and I'll have to try some of the wifes picture programs to see if I can do it.