Dry Fire

Jim Van Eldik · 01-02-2002, 12:25 PM

Is it harmful to a Luger to dry fire it?

Thor · 01-02-2002, 12:29 PM

Jim, potentially it IS harmful and not advised at all, IMO. Snap caps may be one alternative, but I have heard HORROR stories of Collectible Lugers with matching parts being dry fired and the firing pin CRACK! Quite a costly event. Snap caps can take up the force of the firing pin without undo damage. Thor

Jim Van Eldik · 01-02-2002, 01:15 PM

Thor -- Noted!! What are "snap caps?" Where can they be acquired? How about snapping on an empty case?

Thor · 01-02-2002, 01:23 PM

Snapping on an empty case, I assume you mean with a spent primer in it, is not really an great option as when the primer indentation is really established (from multiple hits) it MIGHT not slow down the firing pin enough. Snap caps are plastic rounds that have a spring loaded primer that moves and transfer the energy safely to the primer spring. They are available from PACHMAYR through places like www.midwayusa.com $19.47 for 5 of them. Thor

John Sabato · 01-02-2002, 01:27 PM

but I wouldn't push it much further than that. One the primer has been beaten down, it doesn't offer much protection to the parts you are trying to protect.

I completely concur with Thor's opinion that Dry firing is not a good practice with a luger. An rare occassional snap on an empty chamber shouldn't make you cringe. You should use a "snap" cap to catch the released firing pin to prevent potential damage to the pin or the breechblock.

I create my own snap caps by supergluing a piece of hard rubber eraser or tire into a deprimed case.

Make several and when the rubber appears worn, replace the rubber "primer" with a new one.

Other weapons that I know that dry firing is a very risky proposition are the P-38 and Winchester Model 94 lever action. I have personally broken firing pins in both of them... and not much dry firing is required to do so.

-John

01-02-2002, 02:26 PM

you bet it will break the firing pin.......take from one who knows.....i really think the majority of miss-matched firing pins come just from this

Jim Van Eldik · 01-02-2002, 02:26 PM

At the risk of beating a point to death, and venturing into the always hazardous world of metalurgy, it would seem that a hard (brittle) piece of steel like a firing pin would be an all or nothing proposition. Either you fractured it or you didn't. The number of dry fires would seem irrelevant. It is not a piece that flexes like a spring.

Or is it possible to create some minute stress fractures that eventually lead to failure.

Thanks for the erasure idea John.

Dok · 01-02-2002, 03:18 PM

by dry firing it! The Pachmayr snap caps are great, they're available in most gun stores... I paid $14.95 for mine.

01-02-2002, 04:23 PM

A-ZOOM are by far the best snap-caps I've used. Can be bought from Brownells in Montezuma, Iowa. I use them in all my guns. No 30 Luger available. They state there isn't enough interest in this caliber. Please as many of you as possible call A-Zoom to express interest and they will probably start production.

Best Regards,

Timothy Canney

Johnny Peppers · 01-02-2002, 07:42 PM

The difference in dry firing a pistol and the actual firing is that the pressure generated by the expanding gasses actually cushions the firing pin by pushing back on it. On really hot loads (too hot) the primer will have a tendency to flow back into the firing pin hole in the breechblock. In dry firing pistols with a firing pin as fragile as a Luger, the pistol either needs the resistance of a high quality snap cap, or not dry fired at all.

01-03-2002, 01:53 PM

Is there a way to pull the toggle back and release the firing pin without dry firing it?? I have tried this without any success.

BILL · 01-03-2002, 03:26 PM

Yes, by pulling the toggle back (upwards) and then depressing the trigger it will release the tension on the firing pin. The toggle can then be lowered without having to dry fire the pistol. Again, timing is everything.

Jim Van Eldik · 01-03-2002, 07:53 PM

There is a thread on this down a ways. The advice was pull the toggle up so the breechblock withdraws about half an inch until the mainspring resistance is felt. Then allow the breechblock to move forward while pulling the trigger - thus the gun is uncocked. Works great.

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-04-2002, 03:57 AM

I am actually very much agasint snap caps as I know ocasions where people have put in "snap caps" and actually fired a bullet under the table full of people.

My opinion is that there should never be anything in a gun when you don't intend to use it.

I dry fires all my guns quite a lot, I have never had any kinds of problems.

I know that I might get problems on day, but I am not very vorried.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

http://www.vapensmedjan.com

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-04-2002, 08:32 AM

You are probably pretty close to the truth.

Of course is it possible to stress the material until its broken but what probably happends with the firingpin that cracks (I have NEVER seen one) is that they are hardend tohard and will prabably crack anyway.

I haven't cracked any of my firing pins after extensive dryfirng.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Jim Van Eldik · 01-04-2002, 01:28 PM

All right Hakum I can't resist this.

Back in the 70's I lived in Iowa and developed sort of a reputation as a muzzle loading expert. A guy brought a musket to a local hardware store with a patched round ball stuck in it after the guy forgot to put powder in first. I said I could handle that and brought it home. My method to get a stuck ball out was to remove the nipple and trikle in enough super fine powder to expell the ball on firing. When I remove the ball I saw the breech was full of lubricant they had poured in to help facilitate pulling the ball out. I need the breech dry, so I applied a lit match to the nipple hole to dry it out. While doing this I was holding the end of barrel between the big and second toe of my left foot. When the match was applied the gun went"PHROOOOOM" rapidly expelling the ball onto my basement floor and then into the wall. The lubricant was actually soaked blackpowder which will still fire--- I found out. Yes he had loaded it.

Then there's the time the sergeant major fired his unloaded .45 into the cealing of our office in Vietnam.

01-02-2002, 12:25 PM	#1
Jim Van Eldik User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dry Fire Is it harmful to a Luger to dry fire it?

01-02-2002, 12:29 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: Dry Fire Jim, potentially it IS harmful and not advised at all, IMO. Snap caps may be one alternative, but I have heard HORROR stories of Collectible Lugers with matching parts being dry fired and the firing pin CRACK! Quite a costly event. Snap caps can take up the force of the firing pin without undo damage. Thor

01-02-2002, 01:15 PM	#3
Jim Van Eldik User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dry Fire Thor -- Noted!! What are "snap caps?" Where can they be acquired? How about snapping on an empty case?

01-02-2002, 01:23 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: Dry Fire Snapping on an empty case, I assume you mean with a spent primer in it, is not really an great option as when the primer indentation is really established (from multiple hits) it MIGHT not slow down the firing pin enough. Snap caps are plastic rounds that have a spring loaded primer that moves and transfer the energy safely to the primer spring. They are available from PACHMAYR through places like www.midwayusa.com $19.47 for 5 of them. Thor

01-02-2002, 01:27 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	You can snap on an empty case once or twice... but I wouldn't push it much further than that. One the primer has been beaten down, it doesn't offer much protection to the parts you are trying to protect. I completely concur with Thor's opinion that Dry firing is not a good practice with a luger. An rare occassional snap on an empty chamber shouldn't make you cringe. You should use a "snap" cap to catch the released firing pin to prevent potential damage to the pin or the breechblock. I create my own snap caps by supergluing a piece of hard rubber eraser or tire into a deprimed case. Make several and when the rubber appears worn, replace the rubber "primer" with a new one. Other weapons that I know that dry firing is a very risky proposition are the P-38 and Winchester Model 94 lever action. I have personally broken firing pins in both of them... and not much dry firing is required to do so. -John

01-02-2002, 02:26 PM	#6
bh Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Dry Fire you bet it will break the firing pin.......take from one who knows.....i really think the majority of miss-matched firing pins come just from this

01-02-2002, 02:26 PM	#7
Jim Van Eldik User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: You can snap on an empty case once or twice... At the risk of beating a point to death, and venturing into the always hazardous world of metalurgy, it would seem that a hard (brittle) piece of steel like a firing pin would be an all or nothing proposition. Either you fractured it or you didn't. The number of dry fires would seem irrelevant. It is not a piece that flexes like a spring. Or is it possible to create some minute stress fractures that eventually lead to failure. Thanks for the erasure idea John.

01-02-2002, 03:18 PM	#8
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I too have broken the firing pin on a Win. Mod 94... by dry firing it! The Pachmayr snap caps are great, they're available in most gun stores... I paid $14.95 for mine.

01-02-2002, 04:23 PM	#9
TIMOTHY CANNEY Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Dry Fire A-ZOOM are by far the best snap-caps I've used. Can be bought from Brownells in Montezuma, Iowa. I use them in all my guns. No 30 Luger available. They state there isn't enough interest in this caliber. Please as many of you as possible call A-Zoom to express interest and they will probably start production. Best Regards, Timothy Canney

01-02-2002, 07:42 PM	#10
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: You can snap on an empty case once or twice... The difference in dry firing a pistol and the actual firing is that the pressure generated by the expanding gasses actually cushions the firing pin by pushing back on it. On really hot loads (too hot) the primer will have a tendency to flow back into the firing pin hole in the breechblock. In dry firing pistols with a firing pin as fragile as a Luger, the pistol either needs the resistance of a high quality snap cap, or not dry fired at all.

01-03-2002, 01:53 PM	#11
jmicmic Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Dry Fire Toggle release?? Is there a way to pull the toggle back and release the firing pin without dry firing it?? I have tried this without any success.

01-03-2002, 03:26 PM	#12
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dry Fire Toggle release?? Yes, by pulling the toggle back (upwards) and then depressing the trigger it will release the tension on the firing pin. The toggle can then be lowered without having to dry fire the pistol. Again, timing is everything.

01-03-2002, 07:53 PM	#13
Jim Van Eldik User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dry Fire Toggle release?? There is a thread on this down a ways. The advice was pull the toggle up so the breechblock withdraws about half an inch until the mainspring resistance is felt. Then allow the breechblock to move forward while pulling the trigger - thus the gun is uncocked. Works great.

01-04-2002, 03:57 AM	#14
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dry fire and safety I am actually very much agasint snap caps as I know ocasions where people have put in "snap caps" and actually fired a bullet under the table full of people. My opinion is that there should never be anything in a gun when you don't intend to use it. I dry fires all my guns quite a lot, I have never had any kinds of problems. I know that I might get problems on day, but I am not very vorried. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan http://www.vapensmedjan.com

01-04-2002, 08:32 AM	#15
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: You can snap on an empty case once or twice... You are probably pretty close to the truth. Of course is it possible to stress the material until its broken but what probably happends with the firingpin that cracks (I have NEVER seen one) is that they are hardend tohard and will prabably crack anyway. I haven't cracked any of my firing pins after extensive dryfirng. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan http://www.vapensmedjan.com

01-04-2002, 01:28 PM	#16
Jim Van Eldik User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dry fire and safety All right Hakum I can't resist this. Back in the 70's I lived in Iowa and developed sort of a reputation as a muzzle loading expert. A guy brought a musket to a local hardware store with a patched round ball stuck in it after the guy forgot to put powder in first. I said I could handle that and brought it home. My method to get a stuck ball out was to remove the nipple and trikle in enough super fine powder to expell the ball on firing. When I remove the ball I saw the breech was full of lubricant they had poured in to help facilitate pulling the ball out. I need the breech dry, so I applied a lit match to the nipple hole to dry it out. While doing this I was holding the end of barrel between the big and second toe of my left foot. When the match was applied the gun went"PHROOOOOM" rapidly expelling the ball onto my basement floor and then into the wall. The lubricant was actually soaked blackpowder which will still fire--- I found out. Yes he had loaded it. Then there's the time the sergeant major fired his unloaded .45 into the cealing of our office in Vietnam.