Interesting Banner "41" shooter

DavidJayUden · 06-19-2010, 03:20 PM

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All:
I could use some wisdom on this one. A bit outside of the normal Lugers I see. It is a Mauser Banner "41" that came to the US after WW2. #774U. It included a nice Police holster without date but with some ink printing (Hoffer-somethun' somethin' Zeitz) but no embrossing except 5805 on the back (not the gun's number). And the initials "HK" (for Hermann Koering I'm certain). It has the "41" chamber date, the right side is clear of acceptance marks, etc. There is one eagle over the serial # on the left. The extruded pinned mag. is not matching. The crying shame of it all is that it has been rebarreled showing only the index mark, no #'s at all. And the gun has been refinished with either an incredible high luster blue or a polished black oxide finish, the receiver reminding me of "black Chrome". And of course the #'s and edges show signs of buffing. All matching except the mag, barrel and un-numbered grips.
Anyway, I'm considering this one shiney shooter for now, but am interested in opinions.
I can add more pict's as soon as I figure out how to size them down so they don't clog the works...
Thanks!
dju

drbuster · 06-19-2010, 03:51 PM

David, I agree that this luger is somewhat of an enigma. According to Jan Still's ThirdReich Lugers, tables on pages 16 and 139, a commercial 41 dated Mauser banner commercial would have to start with the suffix "v", but those reported with the banner and 41 date ran between 600-1100, with the "y" suffix. The fact that this piece has a "u" suffix, would place it with markings S/42-1937, 42-1939 and byf-41. Thus one might conclude that the toggle was swithched out for a Mauser banner when it was rebarrelled. The E/N proof on the receiver above the serial number is the mysterious part as this commercial mark should not have been on this piece originally and may have been added when this luger may have been made up from parts for commercial sales. In any event, the fact that it is over-buffed and reblued makes this all moot and I would just enjoy it as a nice shooting piece.

DavidJayUden · 06-19-2010, 04:55 PM

Looking more closely at the suffix, there is a dot below the U suggesting that it could be a Y with the tail obliterated. Good point.
dju

drbuster · 06-20-2010, 01:35 PM

David, of course if the suffix is really a "y", then it would fit nicely into the 41 banner commercial series.

06-19-2010, 03:20 PM	#1
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Interesting Banner "41" shooter All: I could use some wisdom on this one. A bit outside of the normal Lugers I see. It is a Mauser Banner "41" that came to the US after WW2. #774U. It included a nice Police holster without date but with some ink printing (Hoffer-somethun' somethin' Zeitz) but no embrossing except 5805 on the back (not the gun's number). And the initials "HK" (for Hermann Koering I'm certain). It has the "41" chamber date, the right side is clear of acceptance marks, etc. There is one eagle over the serial # on the left. The extruded pinned mag. is not matching. The crying shame of it all is that it has been rebarreled showing only the index mark, no #'s at all. And the gun has been refinished with either an incredible high luster blue or a polished black oxide finish, the receiver reminding me of "black Chrome". And of course the #'s and edges show signs of buffing. All matching except the mag, barrel and un-numbered grips. Anyway, I'm considering this one shiney shooter for now, but am interested in opinions. I can add more pict's as soon as I figure out how to size them down so they don't clog the works... Thanks! dju

06-19-2010, 03:51 PM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	David, I agree that this luger is somewhat of an enigma. According to Jan Still's ThirdReich Lugers, tables on pages 16 and 139, a commercial 41 dated Mauser banner commercial would have to start with the suffix "v", but those reported with the banner and 41 date ran between 600-1100, with the "y" suffix. The fact that this piece has a "u" suffix, would place it with markings S/42-1937, 42-1939 and byf-41. Thus one might conclude that the toggle was swithched out for a Mauser banner when it was rebarrelled. The E/N proof on the receiver above the serial number is the mysterious part as this commercial mark should not have been on this piece originally and may have been added when this luger may have been made up from parts for commercial sales. In any event, the fact that it is over-buffed and reblued makes this all moot and I would just enjoy it as a nice shooting piece. Last edited by drbuster; 06-19-2010 at 03:56 PM. Reason: typo

06-19-2010, 04:55 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Looking more closely at the suffix, there is a dot below the U suggesting that it could be a Y with the tail obliterated. Good point. dju

06-20-2010, 01:35 PM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	David, of course if the suffix is really a "y", then it would fit nicely into the 41 banner commercial series.