This guy has endless supply of Conehammer

alvin · 02-12-2010, 10:03 PM

All from South Africa, most were Conehammers, occasionally also had a few Large Rings. African did not preserve guns as good as British, but most African guns have matching stocks:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157605876

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157605913

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=156897802

A South Africa Gun Outlet?

pitsword · 02-14-2010, 10:13 AM

On the third broom, it is mentioned that there are three seams "barely visible" caused by rebarreling. What caused there to be three seams? Thanks
pitsword

alvin · 02-14-2010, 10:57 AM

From pictures posted, I only see two seam lines. One is at the middle of the barrel (1), and another is near the muzzle (3). I would think the gunsmith cut 2/3 of the old barrel off, brazing welded (using silver or copper) a section of new barrel with relatively better bore to it. The seam line near muzzle (3) might came with the brazed-on new barrel -- it had also been reworked on the front sight (4) before marrying with this gun.

Please also note the text on the brazed-on barrel (2). It's not readable. Some British dealers put their names on the gun barrel saying who sold it. The replaced barrel might came from a captured British gun during the Boer War. Of course, without see the exact text, that's only an estimation. The text could also be a recent U.S. importer stamp.

pitsword · 02-14-2010, 01:43 PM

Alvin,
Thank you Sir. I could see the seam closest to the breech. Beautiful work. Seems like along way around the barn to improve the rifling. Couldn't they have machined a new barrel just as easily? Again, I know nothing of brooms, but am learning. Alvin, you are a wealth of information. Thank you again.
pitsword

sheepherder · 02-15-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitsword

...Alvin, you are a wealth of information.

And entertaining, as well...

The seams are curious...Especially for a "very well known and respected company"...

My WAG would be that it was cut forward of the chamber to eliminate the need to re-chamber it...Silver-soldered to allow fine tuning the front sight placement (angle from level)...

Sawing a barrel off a damaged barrel/receiver (they're one piece on a Broom - think Tokarev 7.62 ammo damage) is quicker than machining a new barrel, chamber reaming, and indexing it...

That being said, the first Cone is nice...I wouldn't mind having it...but price, IMHO, is too high...

(Alvin found a Broom with a bent barrel about a year back...On some well-known site...I wonder if it ever sold???)

conehammer · 02-16-2010, 03:37 AM

Seems to me anyone with the sort of skill required to join up
three different barrel sections would have been better off
threading a entirely new barrel onto a cut down extension.
Silver soldering barrel pieces together seems iffy to me.
Threading 3 pieces together seems like extra work; what about the rifling? perhaps it was actually lined as well, I hope.

Certainly not 'Mauser like'

Jerry

policeluger · 02-16-2010, 11:05 AM

Is this an old "Oyster bay" gun....?

alvin · 02-16-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by policeluger

Is this an old "Oyster bay" gun....?

OBI rework or repair? No, I don't think so.

This seller has listed quiet a few Boer War guns in a few years (always Boer side guns, I have never seen a British gun listed by him). He also sells many copies of a book on narrow topic like "Boer War Small Arms". The book might not be written by him (I don't have a copy), but he's somehow Boer War/South Africa related. Otherwise, where to find so many early C96s of that period? Of course, they could be collected over many years, but his listing Mauser are almost all in this period, all came in this shape and in this tone. I would think he has a steady supply of this.

Norme · 02-16-2010, 07:30 PM

Hi Alvin, The British used the C96 too. Winston Churchill, for one, carried a privately purchased C96 during the Boer War. He is famously believed to be the first person to have fired an automatic pistol, when he used his in "the last cavalry charge of the British Army" at the battle of Omdurman in 1898. Regards, Norm

alvin · 02-17-2010, 05:18 PM

Thanks Norme!

I do have a British version. "British knew how to preserve guns". Missing a South African one though. Hopefully, seller could lower the reserve, I like the 2nd one, which has original barrel and a stock.

British. I shot 20 rounds PRVI cartridges from it, worked perfectly!

alvin · 02-28-2010, 12:04 PM

Guns did not sell.

Book appears again. Here is the Boer War Small Arms book mentioned earlier:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=159038459

alvin · 03-18-2010, 10:53 PM

History Written on Grip -- Angel Boer Fighting British Lion..... It's the first time that I noticed this angel was left handed, and his right hand holded a dagger.

alvin · 04-13-2010, 09:46 PM

We can sit here and count how many Cone Hammers he has:

Link: Yet Another One

Guess the barrel issue coming from shooting 9mm..... but did not fly out?

conehammer · 04-13-2010, 10:00 PM

Note what hin stated in this last post:

Quote:

I am listing several duplicates from our collection but when these are gone, there are no more!

Marketing ploy or?

Jerry

alvin · 04-14-2010, 07:44 AM

Probably true. He has already sold quite a few, the last one was a reblued gun with matching stock sold at $3100. But he must have his keepers not for sale.

There are some hints on the up coming guns though. From the statement "steel was not up to the jacketed bullets and hot powder", which has repeated almost everytime on his items, that conclusion must be made based on guns passed though hands and the keepers in safe. Could that be true, God knows, unless someone could shoot a CH with original mint rifling bore to a smooth one and count how many rounds have passed through. Cost is too high to try.

alvin · 04-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Just realized that the seller actually raised a question -- Was early DWM 403 bullet FMJ or bare lead?

conehammer · 04-15-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Just realized that the seller actually raised a question -- Was early DWM 403 bullet FMJ or bare lead?

I doubt it was lead. Mauser 'borrowed' the cartridge from the Borchardt and those were jacketed. The cornerstone of their
function was that they used a jacketed bullet I've never seen a
reference to a (commercial) 7,63 round from those days that
equipped with a lead bullet.

Jerry

alvin · 04-22-2010, 07:58 AM

Sold at $2500.

Jerry you're right. Although economy is bad, the market for C96, especially Conehammer is still very good. Balance of demand and supply is everything. If it were not because of this small bulge, it could easily go $4k+

Link: WR Conehammer with damaged barrel

The story still goes on and on. How many left.....

Link: British Presentation Gun

Trumpeter · 04-22-2010, 10:20 PM

I picked this one up at a local pawn shop. They were putting it out for sale as I walked in. I figured for$ 500 out the door I could not go wrong. (Or did I) The fire blue parts (extractor, trigger, rear sight) are very nice and the bore looks new. Has original stock with a glued crack in the lid. I think this is a pretty common pre war commercial but this was my only shot at owning a broomhandle what do you guys think?

alvin · 04-23-2010, 05:47 AM

Looks like a 1915 gun. The reoilded stock (without counting the gun) with these repairs can easily sell over $200. The gun if all matching and original could go over $1k. If stock matches the gun, they better go together. You made some money. Even if it has minor issues, $500 is a winner.

Gun like this has a big advantage -- it's shootable, can be used occasionally. That's extra bonus. It's probably the most common C96 in U.S., but averagely, you met at least five DWM Lugers of the period before you met one of this particular variation. And probably met 20 small ring C96 before met a cone hammer.

02-12-2010, 10:03 PM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	This guy has endless supply of Conehammer All from South Africa, most were Conehammers, occasionally also had a few Large Rings. African did not preserve guns as good as British, but most African guns have matching stocks: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157605876 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157605913 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=156897802 A South Africa Gun Outlet?

02-14-2010, 10:57 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	From pictures posted, I only see two seam lines. One is at the middle of the barrel (1), and another is near the muzzle (3). I would think the gunsmith cut 2/3 of the old barrel off, brazing welded (using silver or copper) a section of new barrel with relatively better bore to it. The seam line near muzzle (3) might came with the brazed-on new barrel -- it had also been reworked on the front sight (4) before marrying with this gun. Please also note the text on the brazed-on barrel (2). It's not readable. Some British dealers put their names on the gun barrel saying who sold it. The replaced barrel might came from a captured British gun during the Boer War. Of course, without see the exact text, that's only an estimation. The text could also be a recent U.S. importer stamp. Attached Thumbnails

02-17-2010, 05:18 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks Norme! I do have a British version. "British knew how to preserve guns". Missing a South African one though. Hopefully, seller could lower the reserve, I like the 2nd one, which has original barrel and a stock. British. I shot 20 rounds PRVI cartridges from it, worked perfectly! Attached Thumbnails

03-18-2010, 10:53 PM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	History Written on Grip -- Angel Boer Fighting British Lion..... It's the first time that I noticed this angel was left handed, and his right hand holded a dagger. Attached Thumbnails

02-14-2010, 10:13 AM	#2
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,964 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	On the third broom, it is mentioned that there are three seams "barely visible" caused by rebarreling. What caused there to be three seams? Thanks pitsword

02-14-2010, 01:43 PM	#4
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,964 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	Alvin, Thank you Sir. I could see the seam closest to the breech. Beautiful work. Seems like along way around the barn to improve the rifling. Couldn't they have machined a new barrel just as easily? Again, I know nothing of brooms, but am learning. Alvin, you are a wealth of information. Thank you again. pitsword

02-16-2010, 03:37 AM	#6
conehammer User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 116 Thanks: 1 Thanked 55 Times in 21 Posts	Seems to me anyone with the sort of skill required to join up three different barrel sections would have been better off threading a entirely new barrel onto a cut down extension. Silver soldering barrel pieces together seems iffy to me. Threading 3 pieces together seems like extra work; what about the rifling? perhaps it was actually lined as well, I hope. Certainly not 'Mauser like' Jerry

02-16-2010, 11:05 AM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Is this an old "Oyster bay" gun....?

02-16-2010, 07:30 PM	#9
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Alvin, The British used the C96 too. Winston Churchill, for one, carried a privately purchased C96 during the Boer War. He is famously believed to be the first person to have fired an automatic pistol, when he used his in "the last cavalry charge of the British Army" at the battle of Omdurman in 1898. Regards, Norm

02-28-2010, 12:04 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Guns did not sell. Book appears again. Here is the Boer War Small Arms book mentioned earlier: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=159038459

04-13-2010, 09:46 PM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	We can sit here and count how many Cone Hammers he has: Link: Yet Another One Guess the barrel issue coming from shooting 9mm..... but did not fly out?

04-14-2010, 07:44 AM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Probably true. He has already sold quite a few, the last one was a reblued gun with matching stock sold at $3100. But he must have his keepers not for sale. There are some hints on the up coming guns though. From the statement "steel was not up to the jacketed bullets and hot powder", which has repeated almost everytime on his items, that conclusion must be made based on guns passed though hands and the keepers in safe. Could that be true, God knows, unless someone could shoot a CH with original mint rifling bore to a smooth one and count how many rounds have passed through. Cost is too high to try.

04-14-2010, 07:57 AM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Just realized that the seller actually raised a question -- Was early DWM 403 bullet FMJ or bare lead?

04-22-2010, 07:58 AM	#18
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Sold at $2500. Jerry you're right. Although economy is bad, the market for C96, especially Conehammer is still very good. Balance of demand and supply is everything. If it were not because of this small bulge, it could easily go $4k+ Link: WR Conehammer with damaged barrel The story still goes on and on. How many left..... Link: British Presentation Gun

04-22-2010, 10:20 PM	#19
Trumpeter User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 20 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I picked this one up at a local pawn shop. They were putting it out for sale as I walked in. I figured for$ 500 out the door I could not go wrong. (Or did I) The fire blue parts (extractor, trigger, rear sight) are very nice and the bore looks new. Has original stock with a glued crack in the lid. I think this is a pretty common pre war commercial but this was my only shot at owning a broomhandle what do you guys think?

04-23-2010, 05:47 AM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Looks like a 1915 gun. The reoilded stock (without counting the gun) with these repairs can easily sell over $200. The gun if all matching and original could go over $1k. If stock matches the gun, they better go together. You made some money. Even if it has minor issues, $500 is a winner. Gun like this has a big advantage -- it's shootable, can be used occasionally. That's extra bonus. It's probably the most common C96 in U.S., but averagely, you met at least five DWM Lugers of the period before you met one of this particular variation. And probably met 20 small ring C96 before met a cone hammer.