Byf 42

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 12:24 PM

I just found a number of lugers on consignment at a local gun shop. One was a BYF with 42 marked on the chamber. The serial number is 3732f (I'm pretty sure it's an "f". All numbers match. It has two unmarked aluminum based magazines that are stamped with P08, FXO and an eagle over 37. Both magazines are identical. It comes with a holster that is in good condition, except the closure strap buckle is missing. There is no tool included. The holster is marked 1941, then an eagle over swastika, then gut and finally P08.

I didn't get all of the proofs yet. I would estimate the finish at about 90% with holster wear at the muzzle and high spots. If this is a pure pistol, is it worth the $1600 asking price?

I'm worried about the blued trigger, takedown lever and safety.

DavidJayUden · 10-14-2009, 12:50 PM

Worry no more, as it should be all blued, no straw coloring. $1600 is probably very reasonable during normal times. I guess the internal numbers and grip material are yet to be determined.
Cheaper is always better if you can knock them around a bit, but at that price you won't get hurt, especially 5-10 years out. And if, 5-10 years later, you decide that price was way too much, then we'll all be crying in our beer.
Go for it.
DJU

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 02:17 PM

I have not checked the grip numbers, but the grips are checkered wood--no chip out at the safety.

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnstumpy@msn.com

I have not checked the grip numbers, but the grips are checkered wood--no chip out at the safety.

I have been thinking that maybe we should start rumours that the chip was a sign of a special unit group that had to wear thick, mail chain gloves, thus the chip makes the gun more valuable!

Ed

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 03:58 PM

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The dealer refused to verify internal parts and grip numbers, so I walked away. It's a shame--it's a nice looking rig.

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2009, 04:57 PM

A lot of dealers say they won't verify internals, because they are afraid of taking the gun apart, as they don't know what to expect.

It is amazing that he's walking away from a sale with you by being this way tho? You could copy and then print off the info that says what is required for it to be an all matching luger. If he still says he won't let you look at it, you could say, okay then, is there a 100% moneyback guarantee that its all matching; to include these parts?

Another friend says that he tells the owner he knows how to take them apart and put them back together and that usually does the trick

Ed

WG dog · 10-14-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I have been thinking that maybe we should start rumours that the chip was a sign of a special unit group that had to wear thick, mail chain gloves, thus the chip makes the gun more valuable!

Ed

The chip was a secret recognition sign for a SS splinter group.

Sorry, stumpy, sounds like a nice byf 42.

sheepherder · 10-14-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnstumpy@msn.com

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The dealer refused to verify internal parts and grip numbers, so I walked away. It's a shame--it's a nice looking rig.

He turned down a $1600 sale??? That's more than I make/take home in a month!!!

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 05:52 PM

Yes. He would not field strip the piece or remove the right hand grip, nor would he allow me to do so. He has the pistol on consignment and he said that the owner said he didn't want it "messed" with--wouldn't even allow the toggle to be pulled back.

I don't know if he's hiding something or just wasn't willing to check with the owner. At any rate, I told him that anyone that would be willing to come up with that much money would want the verification too, unless an idiot came by.

Oh well--------

Neil Young

barr44 · 10-14-2009, 05:57 PM

lnstumpy,

I sent you a pm, requesting some info.
Would appreciate a reply.
Thanks, barr

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 06:00 PM

I'm going out of town for a few days. I'll go back in about a week and see if it's still there. If it is, I'll try some of the approaches mentioned by you guys. If that doesn't work, I will try to get contact information of the owner to see if he will listen to reason, or get the dealer to call him.

If it's gone, then it wasn't meant to be.

Neil Young · 10-14-2009, 06:06 PM

Barr:

PM answered.

Neil

FNorm · 10-14-2009, 06:30 PM

"I have been thinking that maybe we should start rumours that the chip was a sign of a special unit group that had to wear thick, mail chain gloves, thus the chip makes the gun more valuable!"

Heeeeey! Better than most luger urban legends I've heard!!! That would explain the missing buckle too!

FN

Drachenstein · 10-15-2009, 09:11 AM

Ah yes, the answer to the dreaded Black Widow ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

THE MAILE GAUNTLET LUGER

Designed for special units of the SA. Designated members of these units called; Schtompenundknocken wore maile gauntlets to instill fear in the populace and protect the hand while pounding on things like doors, heads, ect.. It was noted that during the wear of this implement that it was almost impossible to take the P08 off safe. A special modification was done to the grip by chipping off the rear corner of the grip located by the safety; this allowed the weapon to be fired while still wearing the gauntlet. As the SA diminished and SS grew in power these units were disbanded and replaced by the Gestapo. Most of the weapons recovered had their grips replaced and were put back into service. P08s found with the maile guantlet modification are rare and should be considered collector items.

FNorm · 10-15-2009, 10:11 AM

Yes! but Beware! There's lots of 'Boosting' going on. There should also be a lot of grip strap wear from the gauntlets.

FN

sheepherder · 10-15-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

Yes! but Beware! There's lots of 'Boosting' going on. There should also be a lot of grip strap wear from the gauntlets.

FN

This would also explain the chips frequently found in wood mag bottoms...

GerColctor · 10-17-2009, 12:58 PM

As mentioned above, this dealer is not comfortable disassembling a Luger, so that is why he won't open it. Most gun "dealers" are not familer with field stripping these Lugers, but do not want to admit it. The fact he will not remove the right grip is of significant concern.

I once got a call from a friend at a local gun shop who asked that I immediatly come to the store, no additional info offered. Upon arrival the owner, my friend who was working the counter and a customer with his wife were all standing looking at a Luger that had it's slide removed. No one in that group could put it back together. I reassembled it and handed it to the owner (customer) and then the shop owner told him he didn't wish to buy it from him.

I talked to the customer and his wife and agreed to purchase the pistol, as they were heading up to one of the CT casinos and were looking for $$$. Paperwork was signed, money transferred and I walked out with a very nice, all matching, undated Simson, Army proofed. Correct Simson, but non matching mag.

Sometimes it is nice to be able to help out a gun shop by knowing how tp put a Luger back together.
Joe

Madcow · 03-09-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Young

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The dealer refused to verify internal parts and grip numbers, so I walked away. It's a shame--it's a nice looking rig.

When I was in high school I bought a car that the owner would "not let me take for a test drive at this price". Two blocks away the trans blew up. There may be a very good reason he does not want you to field strip the gun.

LUIS22 · 03-10-2010, 06:07 PM

For that price I'm sure that you can find a lot of other options, Lugers are plentiful ...

10-14-2009, 12:24 PM	#1
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Byf 42 I just found a number of lugers on consignment at a local gun shop. One was a BYF with 42 marked on the chamber. The serial number is 3732f (I'm pretty sure it's an "f". All numbers match. It has two unmarked aluminum based magazines that are stamped with P08, FXO and an eagle over 37. Both magazines are identical. It comes with a holster that is in good condition, except the closure strap buckle is missing. There is no tool included. The holster is marked 1941, then an eagle over swastika, then gut and finally P08. I didn't get all of the proofs yet. I would estimate the finish at about 90% with holster wear at the muzzle and high spots. If this is a pure pistol, is it worth the $1600 asking price? I'm worried about the blued trigger, takedown lever and safety. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 02:17 PM	#3
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	I have not checked the grip numbers, but the grips are checkered wood--no chip out at the safety. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 03:58 PM	#5
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The dealer refused to verify internal parts and grip numbers, so I walked away. It's a shame--it's a nice looking rig. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 04:57 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	A lot of dealers say they won't verify internals, because they are afraid of taking the gun apart, as they don't know what to expect. It is amazing that he's walking away from a sale with you by being this way tho? You could copy and then print off the info that says what is required for it to be an all matching luger. If he still says he won't let you look at it, you could say, okay then, is there a 100% moneyback guarantee that its all matching; to include these parts? Another friend says that he tells the owner he knows how to take them apart and put them back together and that usually does the trick Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-14-2009, 05:52 PM	#9
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Yes. He would not field strip the piece or remove the right hand grip, nor would he allow me to do so. He has the pistol on consignment and he said that the owner said he didn't want it "messed" with--wouldn't even allow the toggle to be pulled back. I don't know if he's hiding something or just wasn't willing to check with the owner. At any rate, I told him that anyone that would be willing to come up with that much money would want the verification too, unless an idiot came by. Oh well-------- Neil Young __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 12:50 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Worry no more, as it should be all blued, no straw coloring. $1600 is probably very reasonable during normal times. I guess the internal numbers and grip material are yet to be determined. Cheaper is always better if you can knock them around a bit, but at that price you won't get hurt, especially 5-10 years out. And if, 5-10 years later, you decide that price was way too much, then we'll all be crying in our beer. Go for it. DJU

10-14-2009, 05:57 PM	#10
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	byf 42 Luger lnstumpy, I sent you a pm, requesting some info. Would appreciate a reply. Thanks, barr

10-14-2009, 06:00 PM	#11
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	I'm going out of town for a few days. I'll go back in about a week and see if it's still there. If it is, I'll try some of the approaches mentioned by you guys. If that doesn't work, I will try to get contact information of the owner to see if he will listen to reason, or get the dealer to call him. If it's gone, then it wasn't meant to be. __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 06:06 PM	#12
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Barr: PM answered. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

10-14-2009, 06:30 PM	#13
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	"I have been thinking that maybe we should start rumours that the chip was a sign of a special unit group that had to wear thick, mail chain gloves, thus the chip makes the gun more valuable!" Heeeeey! Better than most luger urban legends I've heard!!! That would explain the missing buckle too! FN Last edited by FNorm; 10-14-2009 at 06:32 PM. Reason: add

10-15-2009, 09:11 AM	#14
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ah yes, the answer to the dreaded Black Widow ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE MAILE GAUNTLET LUGER Designed for special units of the SA. Designated members of these units called; Schtompenundknocken wore maile gauntlets to instill fear in the populace and protect the hand while pounding on things like doors, heads, ect.. It was noted that during the wear of this implement that it was almost impossible to take the P08 off safe. A special modification was done to the grip by chipping off the rear corner of the grip located by the safety; this allowed the weapon to be fired while still wearing the gauntlet. As the SA diminished and SS grew in power these units were disbanded and replaced by the Gestapo. Most of the weapons recovered had their grips replaced and were put back into service. P08s found with the maile guantlet modification are rare and should be considered collector items.

10-15-2009, 10:11 AM	#15
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Yes! but Beware! There's lots of 'Boosting' going on. There should also be a lot of grip strap wear from the gauntlets. FN Last edited by FNorm; 10-15-2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: add

10-17-2009, 12:58 PM	#17
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 308 Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 27 Posts	As mentioned above, this dealer is not comfortable disassembling a Luger, so that is why he won't open it. Most gun "dealers" are not familer with field stripping these Lugers, but do not want to admit it. The fact he will not remove the right grip is of significant concern. I once got a call from a friend at a local gun shop who asked that I immediatly come to the store, no additional info offered. Upon arrival the owner, my friend who was working the counter and a customer with his wife were all standing looking at a Luger that had it's slide removed. No one in that group could put it back together. I reassembled it and handed it to the owner (customer) and then the shop owner told him he didn't wish to buy it from him. I talked to the customer and his wife and agreed to purchase the pistol, as they were heading up to one of the CT casinos and were looking for $$$. Paperwork was signed, money transferred and I walked out with a very nice, all matching, undated Simson, Army proofed. Correct Simson, but non matching mag. Sometimes it is nice to be able to help out a gun shop by knowing how tp put a Luger back together. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

03-10-2010, 06:07 PM	#19
LUIS22 User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	For that price I'm sure that you can find a lot of other options, Lugers are plentiful ...