If you HAND LOAD!!!

Ron Smith · 12-01-2009, 12:48 PM

I just heard from a friend who has been casting bullets for a young man in exchange for lead wheel weights from his father's tire shop.

The young guy bought a new Marlin 45-70 and was learning to hand load ammunition for it. He evidently tried to experiment and "light loaded" some rounds, too light. One of the cartridges detonated, or squibbed blowing the rifle into 3 pieces, and he nearly lost his left hand. They managed to save his fingers, which were nearly severed, but he will have limited use for life.

I have hand loaded for everything from .25 ACP to .458 Winchester over the last 40 years, without incident. Mainly because I studied, ask questions and was extremely cautious while doing so. Checking and double checking before I was confident in my ability and my loads.

Please, if you are a hand loader, be very careful. Don't assume a "good enough" attitude, and never become too confident, distracted or careless when reloading ammunition. I check, double check for powder weight and visually check every charge after it's thrown into a casing before I seat the bullet. If I have any doubt what..so.. ever, I check again.

*Zero your scale before every loading session.
*Check the charge weight a minimum of 3 times before assuming the weight is correct.
*Visually check every charge after putting it in the case. If it doesn't look right, start over.
*Never experiment, or divert. Follow the manual(s), it/they are published by professionals.
*NEVER mix powders.
*NEVER attempt to "MAGNUMIZE" a non-magnum cartridge.

Things can get nasty, and deadly in an instant if done incorrectly.

Ron
__________________

FNorm · 12-01-2009, 02:25 PM

Great advice. Using a friend's rotary loader, I got one squib load. Primer only. Bullet went about a half inch down the barrel. Fortunarely the next round would not chamber! I weighed every round we made that day and found one more squib, and 3 over loads.

FN

Ron Smith · 12-01-2009, 02:35 PM

Fred,

The friend who makes the cast bullets has an automatic Dillon rig. He reloaded about 3 .50 cal. ammo boxes of .45ACP with cast bullets once. We spent several wasted miniutes punching squibbed bullets out of the barrels of our 1911s the following day. Fortunately we were using semi-autos, so the slides wouldn't cycle a round after the squib.

It turns out that his Super Duper Dillon had some serious issues that he had to fix. I don't trust progressive loaders anymore.

Ron

Ice · 12-01-2009, 03:03 PM

I have a Dillon 550B that I trust .... almost .... completely. That said, I check powder levels fairly frequently during reloading cycles. If anything feels even the slightest bit off kilter I stop and check everything out. No problems so far but I am constantly on guard when shooting my reloads.

Charlie

lugerholsterrepair · 12-01-2009, 04:26 PM

Ron, Great story..sorry to hear of the fellow's misfortune but it serves to remind us all to do just as you say. Be VERY carefull.

Jerry Burney

wlyon · 12-01-2009, 05:27 PM

I to do a lot of reloading. I also use a progressive loader for handgun ammo. I use a powder checker die in one station. This assures that a charge is there and the same amount. All good advise from Ron. Hand loading is not the time to be casual or distracted. Turn off the TV/radios and concentrate on the process. If you feel the need to experiment with loads do it very very gradually, test firing each new load. Fired cases tell a story if you know what to look for. Avoid maximum loads. They are generally not the most accurate and not worth the pressure increases. Sorry for the rambling but hand loading is serious business. Bill

Ron Smith · 12-01-2009, 05:35 PM

My friend is taking this pretty hard because he talked the kid into buying a Marlin 45-70. and told him to try some light loads to get used to it.

However, he did tell him to be very careful while loading. And to pay attention to the manual. Typical young guy thinking he knows more than us old farts. Live and learn, the hard way.

Kind of like my dad telling me what to expect if I was ever in combat. It took me about 10 seconds to realize he knew what he was talking about. Funny how the older I got, the smarter he became.

sheepherder · 12-01-2009, 05:58 PM

I reload quite a bit, and several wildcats. I only "batch" reload; 50 at a time; each individual step. I visually check the powder levels in all the cases. (Been rollin' my own since the 70's)...

I use only RCBS presses and dies (and accessories). Tried the turret; didn't like it...Went back to the Rock Chucker.

The only squib loads I've had were from cartridges shot in the Winter that landed in the snow...the snow melted in the house, and the water in the cases didn't dry out...

I really don't understand how anyone could mistake a squib for a "light load"...If I hear a "phut!", then that's it for the day...All those shells that are left get torn back down and inspected and reloaded again...

That post about the barrel sawn apart lengthwise and showing seven bullets lodged in it really blew my mind...

The guy on here with the arty with three bullets in it was too much...

DavidJayUden · 12-01-2009, 07:23 PM

And I saved those 3 bullets...
DJU

sheepherder · 12-01-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

And I saved those 3 bullets...
DJU

David - Did you get the bulge rolled out???

Steinar · 12-02-2009, 06:27 AM

For me the biggest safety risk is estimating how much to use, based on gun powders not available here in Norway.

E.g. N340 is roughly like Win540 and Herco, and the N330 would be like Greendot, No5 and PB. So since Norma P4 is between N340 and N330.. I should use something like X,X grain of it.
For every comparison like this, the margin of error increases!

So I'm not comfortable doing estimations like this, but as I reload for some 'obscure' calibers, there is not that many reload tables to choose from.. I barely trust my own reloads, and I never purchase or use anyone else's!

Shooting with light loads, as in Ron's story is especially dangerous if shooting in an angle downwards without use of Dacron. Like if you're in a hunting tower shooting downwards on a deer or something..

Ron Smith · 12-02-2009, 09:59 AM

My friend talked to the young man last night on the phone. He used 28gr of IMR 4227 with a 475 gr hard cast bullet. The minimum load in any of the manuals I have for IMR 4227 is 32.5 gr. Most start out at around 34 gr. with a much lighter bullet.

He ignored the manual, after firm instructions not to, and the bullet weight. He is an absolute Novice and figured if a little was good, less would be better.

Ron

worldoftone · 12-02-2009, 03:12 PM

I'll just stick to buying mine.

Good advice regardless.

- WOT

unspellable · 01-18-2010, 01:14 PM

Only squib load I ever had was a rifle load that had the intended powder charge but for some reason the primer did not ignite the powder. Pushed the bullet about six inches up the pipe. The fact that I had a squib was pretty obvious from the weak sound and recoil, so I opened the action for a look see and no harm done. It was a smallish charge of powder in a large case, that might have something to do with it.

I load some fairly obscure cartridges so loading data is not always available.

Most of the loading data I see for the 30 Luger looks pretty anemic. I'm not sure why this is so. Thicker barrel walls make the gun weaker?

12-01-2009, 12:48 PM	#1
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	If you HAND LOAD!!! I just heard from a friend who has been casting bullets for a young man in exchange for lead wheel weights from his father's tire shop. The young guy bought a new Marlin 45-70 and was learning to hand load ammunition for it. He evidently tried to experiment and "light loaded" some rounds, too light. One of the cartridges detonated, or squibbed blowing the rifle into 3 pieces, and he nearly lost his left hand. They managed to save his fingers, which were nearly severed, but he will have limited use for life. I have hand loaded for everything from .25 ACP to .458 Winchester over the last 40 years, without incident. Mainly because I studied, ask questions and was extremely cautious while doing so. Checking and double checking before I was confident in my ability and my loads. Please, if you are a hand loader, be very careful. Don't assume a "good enough" attitude, and never become too confident, distracted or careless when reloading ammunition. I check, double check for powder weight and visually check every charge after it's thrown into a casing before I seat the bullet. If I have any doubt what..so.. ever, I check again. Zero your scale before every loading session. Check the charge weight a minimum of 3 times before assuming the weight is correct. Visually check every charge after putting it in the case. If it doesn't look right, start over. Never experiment, or divert. Follow the manual(s), it/they are published by professionals. NEVER mix powders. NEVER attempt to "MAGNUMIZE" a non-magnum cartridge. Things can get nasty, and deadly in an instant if done incorrectly. Ron __________________ __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... Last edited by Ron Smith; 01-18-2010 at 01:38 PM.

12-01-2009, 02:25 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Great advice. Using a friend's rotary loader, I got one squib load. Primer only. Bullet went about a half inch down the barrel. Fortunarely the next round would not chamber! I weighed every round we made that day and found one more squib, and 3 over loads. FN Last edited by FNorm; 12-01-2009 at 02:25 PM. Reason: sp

12-01-2009, 02:35 PM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Fred, The friend who makes the cast bullets has an automatic Dillon rig. He reloaded about 3 .50 cal. ammo boxes of .45ACP with cast bullets once. We spent several wasted miniutes punching squibbed bullets out of the barrels of our 1911s the following day. Fortunately we were using semi-autos, so the slides wouldn't cycle a round after the squib. It turns out that his Super Duper Dillon had some serious issues that he had to fix. I don't trust progressive loaders anymore. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-01-2009, 04:26 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Ron, Great story..sorry to hear of the fellow's misfortune but it serves to remind us all to do just as you say. Be VERY carefull. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-01-2009, 05:27 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,145 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	I to do a lot of reloading. I also use a progressive loader for handgun ammo. I use a powder checker die in one station. This assures that a charge is there and the same amount. All good advise from Ron. Hand loading is not the time to be casual or distracted. Turn off the TV/radios and concentrate on the process. If you feel the need to experiment with loads do it very very gradually, test firing each new load. Fired cases tell a story if you know what to look for. Avoid maximum loads. They are generally not the most accurate and not worth the pressure increases. Sorry for the rambling but hand loading is serious business. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

12-01-2009, 03:03 PM	#4
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	I have a Dillon 550B that I trust .... almost .... completely. That said, I check powder levels fairly frequently during reloading cycles. If anything feels even the slightest bit off kilter I stop and check everything out. No problems so far but I am constantly on guard when shooting my reloads. Charlie

12-01-2009, 05:35 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	My friend is taking this pretty hard because he talked the kid into buying a Marlin 45-70. and told him to try some light loads to get used to it. However, he did tell him to be very careful while loading. And to pay attention to the manual. Typical young guy thinking he knows more than us old farts. Live and learn, the hard way. Kind of like my dad telling me what to expect if I was ever in combat. It took me about 10 seconds to realize he knew what he was talking about. Funny how the older I got, the smarter he became. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-01-2009, 05:58 PM	#8
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I reload quite a bit, and several wildcats. I only "batch" reload; 50 at a time; each individual step. I visually check the powder levels in all the cases. (Been rollin' my own since the 70's)... I use only RCBS presses and dies (and accessories). Tried the turret; didn't like it...Went back to the Rock Chucker. The only squib loads I've had were from cartridges shot in the Winter that landed in the snow...the snow melted in the house, and the water in the cases didn't dry out... I really don't understand how anyone could mistake a squib for a "light load"...If I hear a "phut!", then that's it for the day...All those shells that are left get torn back down and inspected and reloaded again... That post about the barrel sawn apart lengthwise and showing seven bullets lodged in it really blew my mind... The guy on here with the arty with three bullets in it was too much...

12-01-2009, 07:23 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	And I saved those 3 bullets... DJU

12-02-2009, 06:27 AM	#11
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	For me the biggest safety risk is estimating how much to use, based on gun powders not available here in Norway. E.g. N340 is roughly like Win540 and Herco, and the N330 would be like Greendot, No5 and PB. So since Norma P4 is between N340 and N330.. I should use something like X,X grain of it. For every comparison like this, the margin of error increases! So I'm not comfortable doing estimations like this, but as I reload for some 'obscure' calibers, there is not that many reload tables to choose from.. I barely trust my own reloads, and I never purchase or use anyone else's! Shooting with light loads, as in Ron's story is especially dangerous if shooting in an angle downwards without use of Dacron. Like if you're in a hunting tower shooting downwards on a deer or something.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

12-02-2009, 09:59 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	My friend talked to the young man last night on the phone. He used 28gr of IMR 4227 with a 475 gr hard cast bullet. The minimum load in any of the manuals I have for IMR 4227 is 32.5 gr. Most start out at around 34 gr. with a much lighter bullet. He ignored the manual, after firm instructions not to, and the bullet weight. He is an absolute Novice and figured if a little was good, less would be better. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-02-2009, 03:12 PM	#13
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'll just stick to buying mine. Good advice regardless. - WOT

01-18-2010, 01:14 PM	#14
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Only squib load I ever had was a rifle load that had the intended powder charge but for some reason the primer did not ignite the powder. Pushed the bullet about six inches up the pipe. The fact that I had a squib was pretty obvious from the weak sound and recoil, so I opened the action for a look see and no harm done. It was a smallish charge of powder in a large case, that might have something to do with it. I load some fairly obscure cartridges so loading data is not always available. Most of the loading data I see for the 30 Luger looks pretty anemic. I'm not sure why this is so. Thicker barrel walls make the gun weaker?