P.08 Front sight gauge.

Hessian · 09-07-2009, 08:26 PM

I have always found Waffenmeister tools and gauges very interesting and worthy of collecting, I have paid dearly for my interest in them. In this thread you will find a front sight gauge to determine height. It’s very interesting to apply to a group of P.08’s and notice the difference in height that some have.

The gauge is marked with a scale of 11,29 to 10,69 and is WAa 42 with a company logo of a “WS.” The references I have suggest that it was a “Polte” manufactured gauge but if so why the “WS.”

Perhaps others may have suggestions as to the manufacture.

Should there be interest in these gauges and tools I will post others.

Robert

FNorm · 09-07-2009, 08:42 PM

Interesting! Now, what do the gauge number represent?

FN

sheepherder · 09-07-2009, 09:21 PM

Great stuff!!!

So it would be a WWII tool???

Edward Tinker · 09-07-2009, 10:08 PM

Robert, no clue, but plenty of interest if you're wiling to take the time!

Ed

John Sabato · 09-07-2009, 10:11 PM

These types of tools are Very rare and would find much interest from collectors and enthusiasts. Please continue to post such interesting photos of your collection. Could you please also give the size (diameter) of the portion of the tool that fits in the muzzle?

Hessian · 09-07-2009, 10:41 PM

I was just looking at a VERY rare 7.92 "Kurtz" headspace gauge and it is also WAa42 and a Erma logo mark. Yet looking at a set of the same type gauges (as posted for the P.08) but for a K98 I see a WAa42 BUT with another type of logo.

Could Erma have been one of the locations of final waffenampt approval for other makers of these gauges? Or is Erma just another maker who sent gauges to "WAa42."

Who is WAa42...

Js, Yes I will get the diameter for you.

Robert

jussi16 · 09-08-2009, 01:05 AM

Hello!
Found this WaA info:

42 Gebr. Klinge Dresden (Sn) 1936
42 C. Heinichen Dresden (Sn) 1937
42 cartridge gauge Polte Magdeburg (ST) 1939 – 41
42 P08 tool,K98 tool
42 MG42 tool Hommel Werke
42 gmm cartridge gauge Eckhardt und Lohkamp Berlin (Be) 1944

Hope this helps.

jussi

A.Mifsin · 09-08-2009, 02:45 AM

Thanks for sharing Hessian, hope we see more of your collection.

Alf.

Vlim · 09-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Hi, nice gauge and it would be interesting to see the others in your collection.

Collecting gauges can be a bit addictive. For those who want to pursue that goal here are some tips:

-Beware of fakes or boosted post-war examples. Especially the last group is abundant. The DDR used many of the same armorer's tools, as did countries like Norway.
-Tools can be divided into a number of categories, the rarest being the production tools and gauges, followed by acceptance tools and lastly by armorer's tools.
-Many of the tools we find on the market today came from armorer's tool kits which were stored after WW2 and rediscovered a couple of years ago. The kits, shaped in the form of MG ammo boxes, were mostly stripped of their individual parts and those parts have been offered for sale at gun shows since. Finding a complete WW2 armorer's kit is a bit of a challenge as a result of this.
-Most gauges follow the 'go/no-go' approach.
-IIRC there is a list of Wehrmacht tools, with their serial numbers and a description, in circulation somewhere.

The markings on the sight tools show the height of the sight in millimeters.

mauro · 09-08-2009, 01:17 PM

Hello Robert,
I like too the gauges and I have a nice set in my collection.
The front sight gauge is usually associated to the back one.
Here the DDR set from my collection.

Have fun,
Mauro

Click image for larger version

Name: gauges-028.jpg
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ID: 8245

mauro · 09-08-2009, 06:14 PM

In Addition,
I have the manual listing all the official gauges (quite a number) dated 1937 that Gerben mentioned in his last point.

Ciao,
Mauro

A.Mifsin · 09-08-2009, 06:22 PM

How about a photo of the front cover please , Mauro

Alf

sheepherder · 09-08-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauro

Hello Robert,
I like too the gauges and I have a nice set in my collection.
The front sight gauge is usually associated to the back one.
Here the DDR set from my collection.

Have fun,
Mauro
Attachment 8245

Mauro -

I can see from Hessian's pic how the front sight gauge works; but it's not clear to me how the rear sight gauge works...That other one you posted is a rear sight gauge, no???

Do you plug it into the toggle axle hole???

alvin · 09-08-2009, 09:03 PM

Very interesting. I would assume plugging into toggle hole in disassembled mode being the only way (?)

But why did they measure the rear.... Isn't adjusting the front alone enough?

//// Two heights on rear. Trying to figure out what's in German's mind.... there must be a reason

Hessian · 09-08-2009, 10:58 PM

I have to make this a quick response as I have to run BUT below you will find the German WWII version of the gauge that is inserted in the chamber.

Very nice feedback from all of you! I will post comments later tonight.

sheepherder · 09-09-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hessian

I have to make this a quick response as I have to run BUT below you will find the German WWII version of the gauge that is inserted in the chamber.

...???..."Chamber"???...

What is there that needs checking near the chamber???

mauro · 09-09-2009, 01:01 PM

Hello all,
to see the manual and some pages related to the gauges you can refer to my web site: http://www.lugerlp08.com and then click on "gauges" in the main page.

For the rear gauge it is inserted in the rear toggle link after removing the pin.

Cheers,
Mauro

sheepherder · 09-09-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauro

For the rear gauge it is inserted in the rear toggle link after removing the pin.

OK...Setting aside the one that is inserted in the chamber for the moment...

What exactly is this rear gauge (that you show) measuring??? Were there different rear sight heights??? Different toggles maybe???

alvin · 09-09-2009, 08:26 PM

Why there are two rear sight heights, that's exactly my previous wondering.....

Coincidentally, Parabellum has two calibers. Related, not related, maybe related, may not be related....

Mauro -- Did the tool's manual say anything? Thanks!

alvin · 09-09-2009, 08:38 PM

Thought it again. I think I got it.

Not related with caliber. The rear sight height must fall into the range measured by the two heights. It cannot be exact, must between 6,64 - 6,7. One height must higher than the rear sight, and the other height must be lower than the rear height. So the rear sight won't be too high or too low. Manufacturing tolerance was 0,06m/m.

09-07-2009, 08:26 PM	#1
Hessian User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P.08 Front sight gauge. I have always found Waffenmeister tools and gauges very interesting and worthy of collecting, I have paid dearly for my interest in them. In this thread you will find a front sight gauge to determine height. It’s very interesting to apply to a group of P.08’s and notice the difference in height that some have. The gauge is marked with a scale of 11,29 to 10,69 and is WAa 42 with a company logo of a “WS.” The references I have suggest that it was a “Polte” manufactured gauge but if so why the “WS.” Perhaps others may have suggestions as to the manufacture. Should there be interest in these gauges and tools I will post others. Robert Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Hessian; 09-07-2009 at 10:17 PM.

09-07-2009, 10:11 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	These types of tools are Very rare and would find much interest from collectors and enthusiasts. Please continue to post such interesting photos of your collection. Could you please also give the size (diameter) of the portion of the tool that fits in the muzzle? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-07-2009, 10:41 PM	#6
Hessian User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	! I was just looking at a VERY rare 7.92 "Kurtz" headspace gauge and it is also WAa42 and a Erma logo mark. Yet looking at a set of the same type gauges (as posted for the P.08) but for a K98 I see a WAa42 BUT with another type of logo. Could Erma have been one of the locations of final waffenampt approval for other makers of these gauges? Or is Erma just another maker who sent gauges to "WAa42." Who is WAa42... Js, Yes I will get the diameter for you. Robert

09-08-2009, 02:45 AM	#8
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks for sharing Hessian, hope we see more of your collection. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-08-2009, 01:17 PM	#10
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Robert, I like too the gauges and I have a nice set in my collection. The front sight gauge is usually associated to the back one. Here the DDR set from my collection. Have fun, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-07-2009, 08:42 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Interesting! Now, what do the gauge number represent? FN

09-07-2009, 09:21 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,190 Thanks: 1,407 Thanked 4,459 Times in 2,334 Posts	Great stuff!!! So it would be a WWII tool???

09-07-2009, 10:08 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,957 Thanks: 2,059 Thanked 4,580 Times in 2,112 Posts	Robert, no clue, but plenty of interest if you're wiling to take the time! Ed

09-08-2009, 01:05 AM	#7
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	Hello! Found this WaA info: 42 Gebr. Klinge Dresden (Sn) 1936 42 C. Heinichen Dresden (Sn) 1937 42 cartridge gauge Polte Magdeburg (ST) 1939 – 41 42 P08 tool,K98 tool 42 MG42 tool Hommel Werke 42 gmm cartridge gauge Eckhardt und Lohkamp Berlin (Be) 1944 Hope this helps. jussi

09-08-2009, 12:31 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, nice gauge and it would be interesting to see the others in your collection. Collecting gauges can be a bit addictive. For those who want to pursue that goal here are some tips: -Beware of fakes or boosted post-war examples. Especially the last group is abundant. The DDR used many of the same armorer's tools, as did countries like Norway. -Tools can be divided into a number of categories, the rarest being the production tools and gauges, followed by acceptance tools and lastly by armorer's tools. -Many of the tools we find on the market today came from armorer's tool kits which were stored after WW2 and rediscovered a couple of years ago. The kits, shaped in the form of MG ammo boxes, were mostly stripped of their individual parts and those parts have been offered for sale at gun shows since. Finding a complete WW2 armorer's kit is a bit of a challenge as a result of this. -Most gauges follow the 'go/no-go' approach. -IIRC there is a list of Wehrmacht tools, with their serial numbers and a description, in circulation somewhere. The markings on the sight tools show the height of the sight in millimeters.

09-08-2009, 06:14 PM	#11
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	In Addition, I have the manual listing all the official gauges (quite a number) dated 1937 that Gerben mentioned in his last point. Ciao, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-08-2009, 06:22 PM	#12
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	How about a photo of the front cover please , Mauro Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

09-08-2009, 09:03 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Very interesting. I would assume plugging into toggle hole in disassembled mode being the only way (?) But why did they measure the rear.... Isn't adjusting the front alone enough? //// Two heights on rear. Trying to figure out what's in German's mind.... there must be a reason

09-08-2009, 10:58 PM	#15
Hessian User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quick reply! I have to make this a quick response as I have to run BUT below you will find the German WWII version of the gauge that is inserted in the chamber. Very nice feedback from all of you! I will post comments later tonight. Attached Thumbnails

09-09-2009, 01:01 PM	#17
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello all, to see the manual and some pages related to the gauges you can refer to my web site: http://www.lugerlp08.com and then click on "gauges" in the main page. For the rear gauge it is inserted in the rear toggle link after removing the pin. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-09-2009, 08:26 PM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why there are two rear sight heights, that's exactly my previous wondering..... Coincidentally, Parabellum has two calibers. Related, not related, maybe related, may not be related.... Mauro -- Did the tool's manual say anything? Thanks!

09-09-2009, 08:38 PM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thought it again. I think I got it. Not related with caliber. The rear sight height must fall into the range measured by the two heights. It cannot be exact, must between 6,64 - 6,7. One height must higher than the rear sight, and the other height must be lower than the rear height. So the rear sight won't be too high or too low. Manufacturing tolerance was 0,06m/m.