Nice historical picture

mauro · 01-08-2009, 04:01 PM

Hello Friends,
I am happy to propose to you this nice historical picture displaying two machine gun crews with Luger Artillery.
What it is really remarkable is that you can clearly see three Eugen Huber 1915 AWM Artillery pig skin holsters. It is not easy find out pictures displaying this rare holster. Notice that some others soldiers are carrying the standard LP08 holster.
I guess that the holster collectors appreciate this photo.

Some others LP08 historical photos are available in my web site

Enjoy the picture.

Ciao,
Mauro

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laoshi75 · 01-08-2009, 04:23 PM

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Ron Smith · 01-08-2009, 04:24 PM

Mauro,

That's a great photo. Is it dated? It looks more like a Weimar Reichswehr era photo, or possibly a Freikorps unit.

Ron

mauro · 01-08-2009, 04:59 PM

Hi Christian,
You are right, I have indicated them as Eugen Huber AWM because my pig skin holster is stamped Eugen Huber ... AWM /1 / 15 but it is impossible from the picture clarify the kind of leather used.
I have associated to my Eugen Huber also the magazine pouch Eugen Huber and AWM stamped in pig skin but I do not have the leather attaching part. Personally I guess that they are made from standard leather but it is only my guess.
Hereafter a picture I hope can help you. I guess the historical picture is from George Anderson. You can see a 1915 Mars but it is difficult to understand about the leather type of the others parts.
Maybe your eyes are better than mine.

Click image for larger version

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Ron,
Unfortunatly the photo is undated therefore I cannot be more precise.

Have fun,
Mauro

laoshi75 · 01-08-2009, 05:04 PM

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laoshi75 · 01-08-2009, 05:07 PM

deleted

mauro · 01-08-2009, 05:40 PM

Chris,
My 1915 MARS is pebble grained leather made.

Cheers,
Mauro

George Anderson · 01-08-2009, 05:44 PM

My experiance is that Huber holsters are a pebble grained calf skin not pig skin. I have in my collection an origianl 1914 Erfurt rig with Huber holster and original attaching leather. The attaching leather is normal calf skin.

Of the several Mars holsters I have had only one was pig skin the oyjers were all calf skin.

I agree with Ron as to the date of this photo I think it is after November 1918.

mauro · 01-08-2009, 06:05 PM

Hi George,
Thank you for you input. In my holster collection I have two Eugen Huber (same kind of leather to me) and one Mars, all 1915. I am not really expert in leather therefore I leave to you and the others experts the clarification of the different leather types used for these early holsters.
Have fun,
Mauro

laoshi75 · 01-08-2009, 06:38 PM

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Imperial Arms · 01-08-2009, 07:26 PM

I agree with George that these early LP-08 holsters are made of (calf) leather with a pebble-grain pattern applied (similar to the linear pattern on a European style Luger Carbine scabbards). In our 'teenage' days of collecting, I reckon that many collectors (including myself) were confused by different types of leather patterns and quickly assumed that it was pigskin because its appearance was different from normal leather. As our experience develops and we share it with other collectors, we learn new facts and information about German holsters and accessories which were established by certain military boards.

Albert

George Anderson · 01-08-2009, 09:47 PM

The key to identifying pig skin is to examine the reverse side of the leather. Pig skin will exhibit the patterns of the pores of the skin each with a small dimple where the bristle (hair) was withdrawn. I can send someone a photo if they wish to post it here.

mauro · 01-09-2009, 12:40 PM

Hi George,
Thank you for the clarification.
According to you, both my Huber are calf leather done. In fact, assuming that my eyes are good enough, on the reverse side of the leather I cannot see pores or other kind of patters.
Also the Mars seems the same to me.

I agree with Albert when saying that often we "abuse" of the words "pig skin" simply to higlight that the leather is different from the standard one.

Thank you,
Mauro

Ron Smith · 01-09-2009, 01:07 PM

My thought is that the leather was pressed (pebble grained) to make it more rigid, since calf is skin somewhat thin and pliable. Other pebble grain holsters I have seen were made from relatively thin leather also, compared to smooth leather holsters, which seem to be made of heavier leather.

Ron

laoshi75 · 01-09-2009, 01:56 PM

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laoshi75 · 01-09-2009, 02:10 PM

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Ron Wood · 01-09-2009, 03:36 PM

Yep, that's pigskin alright. You can practically hear the oink.

mauro · 01-09-2009, 04:19 PM

Nice Christian,
Thank you.

Patrick Mc Mahon · 01-10-2009, 11:17 AM

My Dad, an old leather worker, always told me pig skin has three holes for the hairs, which kind of look triangluar.
I am also looking for some thick pigskin leather for some WW1 German belts. Does anyone know of a source?
Patrick

laoshi75 · 01-10-2009, 12:00 PM

deleted

01-08-2009, 04:01 PM	#1
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Nice historical picture Hello Friends, I am happy to propose to you this nice historical picture displaying two machine gun crews with Luger Artillery. What it is really remarkable is that you can clearly see three Eugen Huber 1915 AWM Artillery pig skin holsters. It is not easy find out pictures displaying this rare holster. Notice that some others soldiers are carrying the standard LP08 holster. I guess that the holster collectors appreciate this photo. Some others LP08 historical photos are available in my web site Enjoy the picture. Ciao, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-08-2009, 04:23 PM	#2
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	wonderfull.. deleted

01-08-2009, 04:24 PM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Mauro, That's a great photo. Is it dated? It looks more like a Weimar Reichswehr era photo, or possibly a Freikorps unit. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-08-2009, 04:59 PM	#4
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Christian, You are right, I have indicated them as Eugen Huber AWM because my pig skin holster is stamped Eugen Huber ... AWM /1 / 15 but it is impossible from the picture clarify the kind of leather used. I have associated to my Eugen Huber also the magazine pouch Eugen Huber and AWM stamped in pig skin but I do not have the leather attaching part. Personally I guess that they are made from standard leather but it is only my guess. Hereafter a picture I hope can help you. I guess the historical picture is from George Anderson. You can see a 1915 Mars but it is difficult to understand about the leather type of the others parts. Maybe your eyes are better than mine. Ron, Unfortunatly the photo is undated therefore I cannot be more precise. Have fun, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-08-2009, 05:40 PM	#7
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Chris, My 1915 MARS is pebble grained leather made. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-08-2009, 05:04 PM	#5
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	deleted

01-08-2009, 05:07 PM	#6
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	deleted

01-08-2009, 05:44 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	My experiance is that Huber holsters are a pebble grained calf skin not pig skin. I have in my collection an origianl 1914 Erfurt rig with Huber holster and original attaching leather. The attaching leather is normal calf skin. Of the several Mars holsters I have had only one was pig skin the oyjers were all calf skin. I agree with Ron as to the date of this photo I think it is after November 1918.

01-08-2009, 06:05 PM	#9
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hi George, Thank you for you input. In my holster collection I have two Eugen Huber (same kind of leather to me) and one Mars, all 1915. I am not really expert in leather therefore I leave to you and the others experts the clarification of the different leather types used for these early holsters. Have fun, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-08-2009, 06:38 PM	#10
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	Huber holsters deleted

01-08-2009, 07:26 PM	#11
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	I agree with George that these early LP-08 holsters are made of (calf) leather with a pebble-grain pattern applied (similar to the linear pattern on a European style Luger Carbine scabbards). In our 'teenage' days of collecting, I reckon that many collectors (including myself) were confused by different types of leather patterns and quickly assumed that it was pigskin because its appearance was different from normal leather. As our experience develops and we share it with other collectors, we learn new facts and information about German holsters and accessories which were established by certain military boards. Albert

01-08-2009, 09:47 PM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	The key to identifying pig skin is to examine the reverse side of the leather. Pig skin will exhibit the patterns of the pores of the skin each with a small dimple where the bristle (hair) was withdrawn. I can send someone a photo if they wish to post it here.

01-09-2009, 12:40 PM	#13
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hi George, Thank you for the clarification. According to you, both my Huber are calf leather done. In fact, assuming that my eyes are good enough, on the reverse side of the leather I cannot see pores or other kind of patters. Also the Mars seems the same to me. I agree with Albert when saying that often we "abuse" of the words "pig skin" simply to higlight that the leather is different from the standard one. Thank you, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-09-2009, 01:07 PM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	My thought is that the leather was pressed (pebble grained) to make it more rigid, since calf is skin somewhat thin and pliable. Other pebble grain holsters I have seen were made from relatively thin leather also, compared to smooth leather holsters, which seem to be made of heavier leather. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-09-2009, 01:56 PM	#15
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	deleted

01-09-2009, 02:10 PM	#16
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	deleted

01-09-2009, 03:36 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Yep, that's pigskin alright. You can practically hear the oink. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-09-2009, 04:19 PM	#18
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Nice Christian, Thank you. __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-10-2009, 11:17 AM	#19
Patrick Mc Mahon User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	My Dad, an old leather worker, always told me pig skin has three holes for the hairs, which kind of look triangluar. I am also looking for some thick pigskin leather for some WW1 German belts. Does anyone know of a source? Patrick

01-10-2009, 12:00 PM	#20
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	deleted