New Finn Luger to discuss

wookiewebster · 01-26-2009, 10:15 PM

Hello. I'm new to the list, but not to collecting C&R's. I finally got a Luger in my collection and I am excited about it. It's not a big deal to those of you with big collections or nice pieces, but I am really happy to get my hands on one. It looks like a Finn capture (added->it is not), and has the SA stamp just like my Finn capture SVT-40. However, I cannot tell the mfg date. I would like to know what the ballpark is, if possible. Also, from what I have found out so far, it looks like getting ahold of a 26mm grip disc to fill the void will be hard to do.

Pictures here:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...&id=1449619206

I would appreciate any help or observations about the markings.

Thanks.

Edward Tinker · 01-26-2009, 10:17 PM

Webster, unless we are a Facebook friend of yours, we can't see your pictures.

it is easy to post them here, just use the manage attachments.

Welcome to the forum

Ed

wookiewebster · 01-26-2009, 11:37 PM

Just to catch-up anyone who is not familiar with the current facebook (fb). You can create an album and fb will provide you with a 'public' link that anyone can use to access the album. They do not even have to have a fb account and they can't see any other info, just the pictures.

wookiewebster · 01-27-2009, 12:15 AM

Pictures here:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=44

According to the marking page on this site the crown over an 'N' stamp means:

( http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermarkings/proof-3.html )

28. German "Nitro" commercial proof. Found on Lugers produced after 1920. Receiver proof is upright

So, is that the correct time period?

jussi16 · 01-27-2009, 01:36 AM

Hello!

I think this was originally bought to finnish army in the 1920 - 30`s. On the right grip plate you can see a hole where it had the army unit disc once. It has a finnish Tikkakoski barrel too (T).
What is the letter suffix under the sn?

wookiewebster · 01-27-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jussi16

Hello!
What is the letter suffix under the sn?

one person thinks it is a cursive lower-case 's'

01-27-2009, 08:25 AM

Welcome to the forum. Your Luger looks very nice. The SA stamp indicates that it was Finnish Army property. I believe Finland originally bought their Lugers from DWM, which is the mark on the toggle. They went through a rebuilding process in which the barrels were replaced with a 9mm Tikka manufactured barrel in 4 1/2" or 5" in length. I think the original barrels were originally 7.65 cal, but I'm not sure. The replacement barrels had a different profile front sight and the rear sight notch was widened to give a better sight picture. Rarely all serial numbered parts match on a Finnish Luger.

These pistols had either wood grips or black phenolic grips. The wood grips usually had a brass disk in them with unit markings. You could probably fashion one yourself from 16 or 14 gauge sheet brass. It would not be authentic but would fill the hole.

Have fun with your new Luger and let us know how it shoots.

Vlim · 01-27-2009, 09:07 AM

Here's the little critter in action:

wookiewebster · 01-27-2009, 11:53 AM

Thanks for all the info. This seems like a great forum.

This info made me wonder; since my barrel and frame DO have matching #'s, do you think the Finns stamped the 9mm replacement barrel to match?

jussi16 · 01-27-2009, 01:09 PM

I would say so, because the barrel is Tikkakoski. The gun was originally matching.
And during the war or after it they put those together with that toggle from another gun to have a working gun instead of two broken. It wasn`t that big deal if it had matching numbers or not.
The finnish lugers really saw a lot of action in two wars.

mauro · 01-27-2009, 05:16 PM

Hello all,
A couple of years ago I bought from the relatives of Benjamin Jauhiainen some pictures of this Finnish Officer with his LP08. Benjamin Jauhiainen had a big role in the 1918 Finnish independence war. You can see these pictures with a description of his career in my web site.
It is a nice story.
If interesed go to my web site and in the "historical people with LP08" select J. Benjamin Jauhiainen.
Cheers,
Mauro

Lugerdoc · 01-28-2009, 10:22 AM

Vim, Finnland purchased 5000 7.65x98mm barrelled commerical lugers with LPO8 shoulder stocks from DWM in 1923. Most of these have had the 9x120mm barrels added and in 1940 all of the Finnish added unit ID disc were ordered removed. I only know of 3 lugers in the USA with the original disc intact. TH

Vlim · 01-28-2009, 10:29 AM

We also have a good lead on what happened to the Finnish LP08 stocks.

wookiewebster · 01-28-2009, 12:17 PM

So, does Finland have military surplus shops, or such things, like we have in the states? How rare are military unit ID discs there? Obviously I am wondering if anyone has tried to get some from there. Blank ones?

jeffs · 01-28-2009, 02:22 PM

Why are these pistols so often referred as "Finnish Capture" lugers? Captured by whom, when?

Thanks!
Jeff

wookiewebster · 01-28-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffs

Why are these pistols so often referred as "Finnish Capture" lugers? Captured by whom, when?

Thanks!
Jeff

That must be a common misnomer, since these are, evidently, purchased from Germany. It may be because of the SA stamp, which represents a Finn captured item on things like my SVT-40. This pistols was for sale as a 'Finn capture' as are others I see listed for sale. It is simply ignorance on the subject, as I had until I got some better info on these forums.

Edward Tinker · 01-28-2009, 08:38 PM

Some were captured during the winter war with Germany, then they were defeated and I presume inhabited by the germans and then guns were left.

I have bought two disks from a Finnish friend, added it to my Finnish luger that I sold last year.

Ed

wookiewebster · 01-29-2009, 12:06 AM

nice to have such friends

jussi16 · 01-29-2009, 01:37 AM

The Winter War was between Finland and the Soviet Union

The unit discs were removed by the finnish army during the war. To hide that info from the soviets.

Lugerdoc · 01-29-2009, 09:33 AM

Vlim, !n 1935 when the Lahti pistol was designed, it's stock luger was purposely designed to accept the LPO8 stocks purchased in 1923. So the Lahti holsters that one sees with the straps on the back for a stock, were for these stocks. Jeff, The term "Finnish captured" can rightfully be applied to other German military marked PO8s, later used and SA marked by the Finns. TH

01-26-2009, 10:15 PM	#1
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Finn Luger to discuss Hello. I'm new to the list, but not to collecting C&R's. I finally got a Luger in my collection and I am excited about it. It's not a big deal to those of you with big collections or nice pieces, but I am really happy to get my hands on one. It looks like a Finn capture (added->it is not), and has the SA stamp just like my Finn capture SVT-40. However, I cannot tell the mfg date. I would like to know what the ballpark is, if possible. Also, from what I have found out so far, it looks like getting ahold of a 26mm grip disc to fill the void will be hard to do. Pictures here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...&id=1449619206 I would appreciate any help or observations about the markings. Thanks. Last edited by wookiewebster; 01-28-2009 at 06:03 PM.

01-26-2009, 10:17 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Webster, unless we are a Facebook friend of yours, we can't see your pictures. it is easy to post them here, just use the manage attachments. Welcome to the forum Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-26-2009, 11:37 PM	#3
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just to catch-up anyone who is not familiar with the current facebook (fb). You can create an album and fb will provide you with a 'public' link that anyone can use to access the album. They do not even have to have a fb account and they can't see any other info, just the pictures. Last edited by wookiewebster; 01-28-2009 at 01:22 PM.

01-27-2009, 12:15 AM	#4
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pictures here: http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=44 According to the marking page on this site the crown over an 'N' stamp means: ( http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermarkings/proof-3.html ) 28. German "Nitro" commercial proof. Found on Lugers produced after 1920. Receiver proof is upright So, is that the correct time period? Last edited by wookiewebster; 01-27-2009 at 12:45 AM.

01-27-2009, 09:07 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Here's the little critter in action: Attached Thumbnails

01-27-2009, 01:36 AM	#5
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	Hello! I think this was originally bought to finnish army in the 1920 - 30`s. On the right grip plate you can see a hole where it had the army unit disc once. It has a finnish Tikkakoski barrel too (T). What is the letter suffix under the sn?

01-27-2009, 08:25 AM	#7
Brad Guest Posts: n/a	Welcome to the forum. Your Luger looks very nice. The SA stamp indicates that it was Finnish Army property. I believe Finland originally bought their Lugers from DWM, which is the mark on the toggle. They went through a rebuilding process in which the barrels were replaced with a 9mm Tikka manufactured barrel in 4 1/2" or 5" in length. I think the original barrels were originally 7.65 cal, but I'm not sure. The replacement barrels had a different profile front sight and the rear sight notch was widened to give a better sight picture. Rarely all serial numbered parts match on a Finnish Luger. These pistols had either wood grips or black phenolic grips. The wood grips usually had a brass disk in them with unit markings. You could probably fashion one yourself from 16 or 14 gauge sheet brass. It would not be authentic but would fill the hole. Have fun with your new Luger and let us know how it shoots.

01-27-2009, 11:53 AM	#9
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the info. This seems like a great forum. This info made me wonder; since my barrel and frame DO have matching #'s, do you think the Finns stamped the 9mm replacement barrel to match?

01-27-2009, 01:09 PM	#10
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	I would say so, because the barrel is Tikkakoski. The gun was originally matching. And during the war or after it they put those together with that toggle from another gun to have a working gun instead of two broken. It wasn`t that big deal if it had matching numbers or not. The finnish lugers really saw a lot of action in two wars.

01-27-2009, 05:16 PM	#11
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello all, A couple of years ago I bought from the relatives of Benjamin Jauhiainen some pictures of this Finnish Officer with his LP08. Benjamin Jauhiainen had a big role in the 1918 Finnish independence war. You can see these pictures with a description of his career in my web site. It is a nice story. If interesed go to my web site and in the "historical people with LP08" select J. Benjamin Jauhiainen. Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-28-2009, 10:22 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Vim, Finnland purchased 5000 7.65x98mm barrelled commerical lugers with LPO8 shoulder stocks from DWM in 1923. Most of these have had the 9x120mm barrels added and in 1940 all of the Finnish added unit ID disc were ordered removed. I only know of 3 lugers in the USA with the original disc intact. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-28-2009, 10:29 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	We also have a good lead on what happened to the Finnish LP08 stocks.

01-28-2009, 12:17 PM	#14
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So, does Finland have military surplus shops, or such things, like we have in the states? How rare are military unit ID discs there? Obviously I am wondering if anyone has tried to get some from there. Blank ones? Last edited by wookiewebster; 01-28-2009 at 12:52 PM.

01-28-2009, 02:22 PM	#15
jeffs User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Why are these pistols so often referred as "Finnish Capture" lugers? Captured by whom, when? Thanks! Jeff

01-28-2009, 08:38 PM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Some were captured during the winter war with Germany, then they were defeated and I presume inhabited by the germans and then guns were left. I have bought two disks from a Finnish friend, added it to my Finnish luger that I sold last year. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-29-2009, 12:06 AM	#18
wookiewebster User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	nice to have such friends

01-29-2009, 01:37 AM	#19
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	The Winter War was between Finland and the Soviet Union The unit discs were removed by the finnish army during the war. To hide that info from the soviets.

01-29-2009, 09:33 AM	#20
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Vlim, !n 1935 when the Lahti pistol was designed, it's stock luger was purposely designed to accept the LPO8 stocks purchased in 1923. So the Lahti holsters that one sees with the straps on the back for a stock, were for these stocks. Jeff, The term "Finnish captured" can rightfully be applied to other German military marked PO8s, later used and SA marked by the Finns. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net