Californians especially please read this.

[Prince50]

I know Don personally, and have pleged my support to him.

Please r ead this thread and then help Don too. Californians need to come together on this.

Thanks in advance for your time and support.

Darin

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=136596

[abukafura]

This situation could pertain to any of us at any time. To quote Ben Franklin, "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we will all hang separately." This is an issue that affects all of us. I plan on giving to the fund, even tho I don't know Mr Anderson. His situation represents all of us.

[The Virginian]

I think Kali-fornia and the other gun-grabbing states will be the front lines for us and slowly the "Brady Bunch" hordes now allied with Obummer will come for all of our 2nd Amendment Rights. It is time to close ranks and face the enemy head on!

[Edward Tinker]

I think after he becomes Commander In Chief, that I'd prefer hearing President Obama rather than Obummer. Its hard for me, no matter who is president not to respect the office after serving 20 years in the army...


Ed

[The Virginian]

If you say so, but he is still going to be the worst person ever to hold the office and as far as guns go, you can pretty much bet the farm he is going to go after them. With all due respect and for your army service, I wonder how much respect you will have for him then. Tyrant Kings and Dictators have held respected offices and there is no difference for who holds the Office of the President of the US....or as it is promoted now, Office of the President Elect...what a joke!

[Edward Tinker]

Yes, I quote

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment ... are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I take my oath seriously and it is hard for me to go against that oath I took years ago.


Ed

[Tomathvl]

Virginian,
It's difficult to understand how you know what type of performance Obama will have. You should hold your judgement until he's done something.
I didn't vote for Obama but it will be pretty hard for him to be worse than Bush who I did vote for.

I'm with you Ed, respect should be shown for the president.

[policeluger]

I love Ed as a brother, but what ever you call him BHO has not earned nor does he deserve any respect.....an I will not allow him to ride on the coat tails of others who have earned that respect.......to all who may be following this, I have worked with the law firm of Truanich Michel on a gun related case as an expert witness, I am contacting Tom Miller today to offer what ever help I can......God bless us all.....

[MikeP]

Look at his record, he ain't done nothin'-ever.

He is not going to be the source of all anti-gun issues.
There was a legion of gun haters elected and appointed waiting in the wings with all the agendas they have been working on for a long time.
There is nobody in power to stop them.

I have to agree with Ed. The man was elected POTUS and that is it.

I notice that younger folks today have little respect for formality or titles.

I have nothing good to say about the new guy, but have respect the office.
I did not like Bush and held my nose when I voted for him and McCaine.

Failing to have served does not give a free pass to disrespect the office.

[wlyon]

Ed
Couldn't agree with you more. It seems that we have lost respect for a lot of things. Bill

[davidkachel]

I just finished reading the entire thread shown in the first post...

I certainly sympathize with the fellow being prosecuted and respect the willingness of posters to contribute to his defense, but I have to ask the question: just how long does it take people to wake up? Will American gun owners remain asleep long enough to be outflanked and overwhelmed like the Germans before WWII and more recently the Canadians, British and Australians?

People have been shouting at the top of their lungs for years, yet no one listens. Just exactly like most if not all of you gentlemen are going to ignore this:

We are already a police state. It is not coming. It has already happened. It is over. We have already lost. The coup you are all worried might happen, has already taken place. Just like the people in Germany, you all think it is coming when it has already passed you by. That is the way it happens, ALWAYS! They don't warn you of what they are about to do. While we all talk about preventing it, it happens right in front of our eyes and we are totally blind to it. Scoundrels do not announce their plans or send you an invitation to a duel. They sneak up behind you, all the while telling you how they have your best interests at heart, and hit you over the head.

The justice system is gone. What is left is a charade intended to keep us complacent and frightened. In this country we have grown fat, lazy and uninterested. That is how freedom is taken and there is ALWAYS someone watching and waiting for a chance to take it. The way the justice system is SUPPOSED to work is that you are not guilty of a crime if you did not know you were committing a crime. The phrase "ignorance of the law is no excuse" IS an excuse. It is an excuse to prosecute the innocent. If the fellow in question had a thousand illegal weapons but purchased them in good faith without knowledge of their "illegality" then he is innocent of any crime. But does that stop the federal f***s from going after him? Of course not.

We live in an upside down, planet of the apes, surreal version of what our country is supposed to be. Police are supposed to FIRST prove to a judge that a crime has occurred. Only AFTER a judge accepts that a crime has indeed occurred may the police give evidence to support the belief that YOU committed it and only THEN can they get a warrant. But not any more. Now they first decide they want to "get" you, then they tell a judge they suspect you of a crime and ask for a warrant. But we accept this and so they get away with it.

We have paramilitary murder squads in our police departments, something that is unmistakably unconstitutional, but we like their TV show and believe the lie that they are "necessary" so we accept them.

Like gullible children we swallow story after story each and every single time that the government wants us to go along with mistreating or murdering a group of people they don't like. All they have to do is tell us via an equally gullible media that they (the target) are religious nut jobs (it's not a crime to be a religious nut job) or the ever-favorite "they have GUNS (!) (evil musical crescendo), and better still, they have ILLEGAL GUNS (!). It doesn't matter how many times they pull this gag or how many mothers and children these Nazi bastards murder, we still believe the ridiculous story each and every single time they tell it.

The fellow in California is not cause for a crusade. He is only a symptom (yes I understand it is much larger than that to him). He is just one rash on a smallpox ravaged body. Raising money for him, although obviously helpful to HIM, does nothing about the problem. Because while everyone watches his case and tries to help, the gestapo will start prosecution of dozens more. And if you become more than a minor nuisance, they will trump up some interesting charges for YOU. And every time you come to the defense of one individual, you risk losing all your credibility because all the nazis have to do is wait for you to make just one mistake by coming to the defense of just one person who doesn't deserve it. That mistake they will plaster all over the media and no one will ever pay any attention to you again.

For decades, the federal f***s (and lots of local and state gestapos) have been deciding who they want to get and then inventing the crime to get them with. Then before or after the fact, they arrange for you to ignore the injustice by announcing in the press what a distasteful character the dastardly criminal is, so you won't be interested in what happens to him. It has gotten so bad they now feel free to tell the most absurd lies, secure in the knowledge that people will believe them anyway. Remember the jack-booted thugs who burst into the house in Miami with machine guns so they could return a small boy to Cuba? Remember the excuse? I'll bet you don't. The excuse was, an anonymous neighbor told them the family "might" have a gun in the house.

What SHOULD be happening is that gun owners should be outside the offices of these out of control Nazi sons-of-bitches with a noose and demand loudly they be prosecuted as criminals themselves or hung on the spot.

I have lost all faith that our country can save itself. We are fast asleep and dreaming the dreams dictated to us by people who are the embodiment of evil. We believe that we can ask the bastards to give our freedom back to us and somehow they will magically see the error of their ways and do so. Millions of Germans believed the evil they saw all about them was unknown to Hitler and frequently threatened the Gestapo with, "you'll regret this when Hitler finds out about it." We are doing the same thing. Only we believe we can threaten them with "you'll regret this when you restore the Constitution and the rule of law", making us even dumber than the Germans.

Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. We have allowed an out of control government to 'educate' us into total ignorance and we are repeating history. (Ever watch Jay Leno's Jaywalk allstars?) Sadly, it is not even subtle. Yet no one notices. We have become the apes from Planet of the Apes. We revere the magical Constitution yet do not understand it in the slightest. They tell us the Constitution is "quaint" or "outmoded" and we are stupid enough to believe them because we lost the knowledge decades ago that the singular purpose of the Constitution is to protect us from THEM!! The Constitution is a document designed to neutralize Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, etc., etc., yet we believe them when THEY tell us that shield against THEM is outmoded. How incredibly stupid and gullible we have become.

The last flickering light of liberty in the world is about to be extinguished forever and it will pass equally as unnoticed as the legal case of the poor fellow whose plight initiated this thread. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

If a people gets the government they deserve then we as a people have apparently done something most reprehensible. So to everyone crying about the poor guy in California I say, cry for yourself. Your freedom is already forfeit. All you are doing is refusing to fight while they take the final steps to solidify their hold. You are watching the hand with the magic wand in it while you should be watching the other hand.

And that is my rant for the year. Thomas Jefferson warned you and you ignored him. Benjamin Franklin warned you and you ignored him. All the rest of the founding fathers were equally dismissed. I am just some guy you never heard of who is probably a religious nut and no doubt owns evil illegal weapons or can be linked somehow to kiddie porn, or maybe I'm a "communist" or live in a cabin in the woods and "keep to myself". Pay no attention. You are still free. After all, Nancy Pelosi says you are!

[Tomathvl]

David,
While you make some good points in your rant, IMHO you should get some medical help before you do something stupid.
Tom

[davidkachel]

Originally Posted by Tomathvl

David,
While you make some good points in your rant, IMHO you should get some medical help before you do something stupid.
Tom

Thank you for proving my point...

Your reaction is: the guy in the the bell tower shouting "the British are coming" is nuts.

[George Anderson]

David, I have read many of your intemperate meanderings in the past and really wondered where you were "coming from". This last one tells me...and I am with you. It's the Constitution first and last. It trumps all else.

Ed, read your "Oath of Enlistment", the first twenty three words are the oath all the obligations that follow are subject to the first...the Constitution. Our country's survival these last two hundred and ninteen years has been due in great part to this "five hundred pound gorilla" in the room occupied by the three branches of our government. With this new regime we are faced with the certainty that at least the executive and legislative branches would like to tame the "gorilla".

[Edward Tinker]

Geo, agreed, I believe in the Constitution 1st and foremost, my intent was that the office deserves respect, no matter what (at least to me); I also will fight to the death to allow others to bad mouth that office, if "needed".

That said, to paraphrase; a certain revolutionary said; that a little revolution is good every now and then....


Ed

[davidkachel]

George, while you are correct about the left wanting to tame the gorilla, don't fall into the trap of believing the other side doesn't want the same thing.
Remember that it has been under Dubya that we have lost habeus corpus, gained the Patriot Act (the name itself says they are willing to laugh right in our faces) and suffered innumerable other successful assaults on the Constitution.
The left vs right argument is simply a highly successful case of misdirection. Neither side understands or respects the Constitution. Summarized: the right wants to dissolve the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the name of protecting you from outside threats, real and imagined, while the left wants to do the same thing in the name of protecting you from yourself.
Neither is to be trusted.
But this is all pointless mental masturbation. The battle is over. The people of this nation are firmly committed to their slumber and even seeing their neighbors dragged away will not awaken them (they just assume the neighbor must have been unsavory). President Eisenhower was so distressed by what he saw in our future that he used his farewell address to warn us of what was coming. STILL, we paid no attention.
Now things have come so far that candidates for president openly and repeatedly ridicule the Constitution and those who support it on live television and we applaud them for it.

[Conny]

There isn't enough information concerning exactly why he was searched, arrested and charged for me to donate. Someone lied, Fine. No offense, I need more information than that to give up my hard earned money. How, about what, when, where, who were all the people involved and exactly why the lie implicated Mr. Anderson.

The people to blame here is not Law Enforcement. They do what they're told. The people to blame are the gun owners who for years have sat on their duffs and not voted in crucial elections that could affect their firearms. Statistics have shown that the vast majority of gun owners do not vote when it is needed. Many gun owners are "stuck" with their "bunker" mentality thinking it won't affect them and they won't give up their firearms to anyone. Well, when they come to your door one day, you will give them up. All of them. By then, it will be to late to do anything. Statistics also show that Obama won because many of the gun owners and Republicans didn't vote. He won with 62 million votes. There are 80 million gun owners.

You deserve what you elect.

[WehrmachtP08]

Some of us take a slightly different oath:

I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I will support the
Constitution of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the
National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of
the United States, paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or
fealty I may owe to any State or country whatsoever; and that I will at
all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Note that this one does not include anything about the President.

With that said, go and hide your guns, because come January, they may be in grave danger from Hussein.

[WehrmachtP08]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Geo, agreed, I believe in the Constitution 1st and foremost, my intent was that the office deserves respect, no matter what (at least to me); I also will fight to the death to allow others to bad mouth that office, if "needed".

That said, to paraphrase; a certain revolutionary said; that a little revolution is good every now and then....


Ed

Ed, I agree with you here. You salute the rank, not the man.

What I believe is the man does not deserve the respect of others, but his rank demands respect. Those of us who serve to give others their freedoms should be proud that others can express their feelings about the president elect, because that means that our job has been completed successfully.

Duty, Honor, Country.

Duty: to ge the job done

[jamese]

Ed,
While I agree with you. I have worked many protection details with the Secret Service for official and un-official visits to this area. I have not always like or respected the person who held the position but I have always respected the OFFICE.

I have very little respect for Obummer and any future reference to the man on the forum should only be listed as President out of respect for the OFFICE and not the man.

David, you should go talk to someone and find a positive outlet for some of that frustration.