The story behind my "new" Luger

[pacman]

I recently posted pictures of my uncle's 1914 Erfurt Luger, which I now own. I thought that some of you may be interested in the story behind it. My Uncle enlisted in the Army in 1942. Once there, the Army recognized that he had a rare and valuable talent. He was a blazingly fast typist!! He was immediately shipped to England where he figured he was going to be spending the rest of the war - behind a desk.

However, shortly thereafter, his commanding officer came up to him and informed him that he would be just a little bit closer to the action. The British has just formed a new unit - the SAS. The U.S. Army wanted to learn more about this unit and needed a good typist to go along with them to report on their tactics. My uncle didn't know at the time what he was getting into but he followed his orders.

A few weeks later my uncle was still a typist but only in the evening. During the day he was a gunner on a jeep with a mounted 50 cal .machine gun racing though the desert behind Rommel's lines. Remember the TV show- the Desert Rats? That was my uncle!

One day they came upon a small German Patrol and he started hosing them with the machine gun. They quickly surrendered and the officer leading the German Patrol, a captain, gave my uncle the Luger. Sometime later my uncle was severely injured in a Jeep crash and was shipped back home.

Many of us boomers tend to romanticize our parents generation, but it is not without cause. My uncle's story is only one of many, about a person who was the farthest thing from a professional soldier, yet he stepped up and did his duty when he was asked.

[pacman]

Huh????

Boy did you get the wrong idea. I was trying to set the stage of my uncle, a clerk-typist, being thrust in all of a sudden in with the elite of the elite. If you read any disrespect in this story I apologize but it was not my intent.

My uncle died in 1995. The story was related to me by my cousin who decided he did not want the gun anymore and gave it to me. You have all the facts I have. You can decide to believe me or not.

It is a matter of historical record that "Special Forces" as we know them today were invented by the British. It is also a matter of historical fact that when we joined the war in the European theatre we had a lot of learning to do. We got our asses kicked at Kasserine Pass. It would make perfect sense that the U.S. would want to learn Special Forces tactics from the best of the best. It makes further sense to send someone with the main task NOT to be a fighter but to record their exploits. That requires someone who is a good writer - not necessarily a good warrior.

Like many others who returned from WW II, my uncle never talked about the war. I never knew the full story until my cousin gave me the Luger. What I think is great heroism was no big deal to him. He certainly had no reason to lie. He got on with his life, started a small business and raised two kids. He suffered back pain his entire life as a result of the jeep crash. The Luger sat in the attic.

My name is not Jim.

[wlyon]

Tac Back off, have a drink or something. He was only relating a story he was told. Since none of us was there who knows and does it really matter?This is a poor impression for a new member. Bill

[Mauser720]

pacman -

I think it is a wonderful story, and may I suggest it is the kind of information you will want to document and keep with the Luger.

One of my late uncles was in the Pacific Theater during WWII and I am afraid I did not fare nearly as well as you with the Luger.

I have the curved tusk of a wild pig that was worn through a hole in the nose of one of the aboriginal people who lived either on Guadalcanal, or Saipan. He was also at Tarawa, but there were no aboriginal peoples there. And even though it is only a pig tusk, it means a lot to me, since my uncle survived some terrible wounds and did bring it back with him.

These old warriors are all dying off now and we owe it to them to preserve whatever histories have been passed down to us. As family members, we are the custodians of their memories. God bless them all.

Mauser720 - Ron

[Edward Tinker]

as Bill said, lets play nice.


stories we were told by our relatives can be very true, or otherwise, just hard to tell, and like Bill said, they're stories, not nessisarily required of "certificates of proof"


Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

I can reliably inform you that this is not necessarily a good idea on your part. Or what? You'll pee your knickers?

Geeze Tac, give the guy a break. Suggest a good book on the history of the SAS or something sensible if you know more about it than he does.

Jory posted here with a Luger and a story so threats and intimidation are in order?
Your dog die or what?

am not too happy to put on this forum.

Then don't....

Jerry Burney

[RylanBrissette]

Well wether it is a true story or not (I honestly have no idea). I found it very amusing and to be honest, I love to hear them

It is kind of pointless to debate wether they are true or not isn't it? I doubt many of us here actually captured any Lugers ourselves during ww2... Even vets themselves may mis tell a story a little as ww2 was some time ago.

However, I don't think we should discourge people from telling these stories as most of us enjoy to hear them. Not to mention this is the is under the "new collectors forum"... (absolutly no flaming).

Originally posted by wlyon
Tac Back off, have a drink or something. He was only relating a story he was told. Since none of us was there who knows and does it really matter?This is a poor impression for a new member. Bill

You are right, I SHOULD let it rest, if it were not so preposterous a story and portrays British and Commonwealth Special Forces in a ludicrous light.

If I had posted a similar story from MY perspective - that a British clerk had gone straight from the typing pool to serving on operational missions with US Navy SEALs, taking an active part in shoot-em-ups and prisoner handling, I am pretty certain that YOU guys would be all over me like a rash, and rightly so.

tac

[Steinar]

If it reflects the truth.. the history of LRDG as many know it, would have to be rewritten. Therefore I think Tac is in his rights to have an opinion on this particular story.

Any story that includes names, divisions and such.. is sensible in a way that they can be seen as be disrespectful for those involved, and a potential rewrite of history.

Today these fellows would not let you know if they prefer milk or sugar in their tea. If they where so 'open' in the 40's that they where sending in a solider from another nationality - without any security clearance or training, directly into operational missions.. I'm not sure they would exist today.

That would be my 2 �¸re about this.. Now I will give it a rest.

[pacman]

Ah gee you sure told me. Less than two weeks on this forum and I get called a liar and I am threatened. I guess the "no flaming rule" doesn't apply to regulars.

You have made two assumptions, both almost certainly erroneous. 1) That my uncle was sent out immediately with no training and 2) that because he was a clerk , he was innately unqualified to be a soldier. Both of these are not true.

I can't speak for WW II. I wasn't there . But I can speak with some authority about Vietnam. Reporters, both military and civilian, were everywhere. They went on missions all of the time, including with LRRP teams. Read Michael Kerr's Dispatches or Tim Page's collections of photos. Tim Page was a Brit by the way and did go out with LRRP teams on a regular basis. I doubt that either Page or Kerr went through extensive training. In both Iraq wars, reporters essentially no training were embedded with American and British forces. So I am puzzled as to why the fact that an American soldier was sent to accompany and LRDG Group in a largely reporting role is so unthinkable

Steinar, Tac Foley, Before you accuse me of rewriting history you actually ought to read some. The British Army was short-handed from Dunkirk until the end of the war. That lack of resources in both men and material had a great impact on Monty' strategy and may have been a root cause of much of the friction between him and the American commanders.

As a result a significant portion of the LRDG involved in Africa WERE foreigners. They were New Zealanders. The LRDG also worked with a Free Polish unit and interestingly, a group of German Jews. Read John Gordon's book on the subject, which is excellent. I can recommend several others if you actually want to study the subject instead of making accusations.

Like the formation of the Green Berets in the U.S. the formation of SF in Britain was highly controversial among regular soldiers. Sir William Slim (Commander of the british Campaign against the Japanese in Burma stated " The British Army in World War II had spawned a surprising amount of special units and Formation... each trained and equipped and prepared for some particular type of operation....These had, on the whole turned out to be expensive wasteful and unnecessary... The quote is right out of Gordon's book. Read it!!! As a result of this friction during the war, these special forces groups had to compete with regular units for scarce personnel and equipment. They also suffered high loss rates. Many units, Special Forces and otherwise, were happy to get warm bodies. I doubt that my uncle's original mission included going out on raids. But it is also unlikely that any short handed officer would not use all of the resources at his disposal, including a reporter, in a combat role.

I have been called many things during my 56 years. But I have never been called a liar... until now. It is NOT appreciated.

[Edward Tinker]

pacman, read ALL the postings before you make comments about letting things slide for 'regulars". You had more backers than detractors.

I will let both sides drop this issue, this thread is CLOSED.