mainspring tension

[Alx]

Does a stronger (new) mainspring make for faster lock-time, or slower ?

Am considering that a stronger spring mainspring will resist toggle opening more, tending to slow down the cycle, but that it will also cause faster bolt closing, tending to speed up the cycle.

So, would a stiffer spring make for faster, slower, or the same cycle time ?

[Lugerdoc]

Alx, I would expect a slower opening of the toggle and a faster closure, so the difference would be negligible. I just worked on a tired WW1 PO8 for a forum member that had a WW2 21 turn recoil spring installed and a few other minor problems. Unless everything is working properly (mag spring tention, right power ammo, smooth working extractor & poished feed ramps) the more powerful spring just causes problems. TH

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Lugerdoc
Alx, I would expect a slower opening of the toggle and a faster closure, so the difference would be negligible. I just worked on a tired WW1 PO8 for a forum member that had a WW2 21 turn recoil spring installed and a few other minor problems. Unless everything is working properly (mag spring tention, right power ammo, smooth working extractor & poished feed ramps) the more powerful spring just causes problems. TH

Hi Doc:

Yes, the timing of the springs are critical to proper operation.

The Interarms recoil spring you sold me, coupled with an Interarms magazine, now make my 1917 DWM work perfectly, and with modern strength ammo.

Sieger

[Alx]

What mainspring changes would be normally due to compensate for a 6" barrel having been installed on a formerly 4" P08 ? One misfeed nearly every clip, tried many clips, only one seems to work better, but the others are fine with rest of my other Lugers. I am thinking the longer barrel is slowing the stripping / chambering process down, maybe causing these misfeeds.

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Alx
What mainspring changes would be normally due to compensate for a 6" barrel having been installed on a formerly 4" P08 ? One misfeed nearly every clip, tried many clips, only one seems to work better, but the others are fine with rest of my other Lugers. I am thinking the longer barrel is slowing the stripping / chambering process down, maybe causing these misfeeds.

Hi:

The variables you have to examine are many with the Luger misfeed problem. Someone really familiar with Lugers would have to examine your individual pistol and check several variables first, among these:

1) Magazine condition, including proper magazine spring tension

2) Ammo you are using, including proper OAL, charge and even the powder type

3) Extracter operation and spring tension, as well as, feeding ramp condition

4) Recoil Spring condition and tension

5) General condition of pistol's moving parts, proper lub., etc.

That being said, and all other variables being within spec., you would probably need a weaker recoil spring, to compensate for the heavier barrel (and thus receiver unit).

My LP-08 (8 inch) needs stiffer ammo to function properly, much stiffer than my regular P-08 models.

Sieger

[Alx]

Would it cause any problems .... can a spring be "weakened" by shortening , by cutting off a coil or two, and filing flat the end ... flat to the bearing surface, although losing the original spring end shape ? I have a spare spring, and could choose the weaker of the two, if I can figure out which one ...

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Alx
Would it cause any problems .... can a spring be "weakened" by shortening , by cutting off a coil or two, and filing flat the end ... flat to the bearing surface, although losing the original spring end shape ? I have a spare spring, and could choose the weaker of the two, if I can figure out which one ...

Hi Again:

I wouldn't start cutting springs and guessing. I'd order the springs available from Wolff Springs. I believe they have three springs: "weak", "standard" and "heavy" (pardon my simplification, as they actually rate them by poundage). You should try the weakest one first and work up. One of these should make your pistol operate properly.

While you are at it, get their replacement magazine spring rated at 110% of standard. This should take care of any magazine spring weakness problems.

Good luck!!

Sieger

[Alx]

M. Sieger,
could you discuss a bit about the different kinds of feeding jams that occur with weak/excessively strong springs, both recoil and mag springs ?
Specifically, for instance, the jam I am seeing in two of my shooter Lugers is not a classic stove-pipe, but the bullet nose ( always using jacketed round nose standard ball ammo ) is stuck against the breech face, that sharp place below the extractor notch at 12 o'clock above the chamber, digging into the bullet nose, the bolt partially closed and against the mis-fed bullet's rear, and the bullet stuck partially sideways, maybe at an angle of degrees to the right, and of course tilted upward against the top of the breech face. The jam won't clear by racking the toggle, the next round in the clip maintaining pressure, but after dropping the clip, the toggle pulled back allows the jammed bullet to fall thru the mag well and out of the gun.

[Lugerdoc]

Alx, Feeding jams such as your can be caused by any of the items, or a combination of them, list above by Seiger. After you've ruled out, or corrected the rest, then I'd consider taking a couple of coil off your recoil spring. TH

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Alx
M. Sieger,
could you discuss a bit about the different kinds of feeding jams that occur with weak/excessively strong springs, both recoil and mag springs ?
Specifically, for instance, the jam I am seeing in two of my shooter Lugers is not a classic stove-pipe, but the bullet nose ( always using jacketed round nose standard ball ammo ) is stuck against the breech face, that sharp place below the extractor notch at 12 o'clock above the chamber, digging into the bullet nose, the bolt partially closed and against the mis-fed bullet's rear, and the bullet stuck partially sideways, maybe at an angle of degrees to the right, and of course tilted upward against the top of the breech face. The jam won't clear by racking the toggle, the next round in the clip maintaining pressure, but after dropping the clip, the toggle pulled back allows the jammed bullet to fall thru the mag well and out of the gun.

Hi:

I had a 50 or so line answer for you when the damned computer fouled up on me.

Please contact me at wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com and I'll be happy to walk you thorugh it.

Sieger

[shadow]

Originally posted by Sieger
Hi:

I had a 50 or so line answer for you when the damned computer fouled up on me.

Please contact me at wotan.ny@ix.netcom.com and I'll be happy to walk you thorugh it.

Sieger

I am also interested in your 50 line answer. Is there any way you could post it.

Thanks.

Chris

[Alx]

The email address above did now work for my system, had a returned mail notice. Whenever I am going to write something long, or that might have a use outside of the immediate need, I put it into Notepad, or Wordpad, as a text (.txt) file, so it is more durable. Then if needed to post online, or email, just copy/paste it. Writing long pieces while online is risky, sites time-out and sometimes will drop offline momentarily, losing unfinished unsaved or unsubmitted replies.

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Alx
The email address above did now work for my system, had a returned mail notice. Whenever I am going to write something long, or that might have a use outside of the immediate need, I put it into Notepad, or Wordpad, as a text (.txt) file, so it is more durable. Then if needed to post online, or email, just copy/paste it. Writing long pieces while online is risky, sites time-out and sometimes will drop offline momentarily, losing unfinished unsaved or unsubmitted replies.

Hi Alx:

I just mailed myself a letter, so the above e-mail address is still active.

Please try again.

Sieger

[Alx]

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