Import Markings Question

SteveW · 11-27-2006, 08:54 PM

Recent listing on Gunbroker the seller stated:

Near mint (98%+ finish) 1917 DWM Artillery Luger Pistol. This is a very fine unrestored, original example that I have just Legally imported from Switzerland. NO IMPORT MARKS ARE ON THIS FIREARM

It was my understanding all imported guns had to be marked with the proper importation marks. Country of origin, importer etc. Are there some instances where the imported markings are not required? I realize that on pre 1898 guns it's not an issue.

Pete Ebbink · 11-27-2006, 09:48 PM

Steve,

As I understand, any military surplus gun coming into the USA after 1968 are supposed to be import stamped.

But with lots of refinishing of luger which are then sold as mint and original, the import stampings can easily disappear and I am not sure if this violates BATF stuff or not.

John Sabato · 11-28-2006, 08:59 AM

import marks are sometimes very discreetly applied to areas not easily visible... some have been known to be placed on the small flat under the grips on the frame for instance... for a long time, the ATF was not very picky about where the marks were, or their size...only that they should be present and readable... I think this has now changed, but can't provide a reference... Check your gun carefully with a magnifying glass... you may find some stamps that are obviously not proof or inspection marks...

What process did you use to import this gun? If you or someone else smuggled it in (heaven forbid ... then the missing importers mark is small potatoes compared to the legal status of the gun)

... it is the importer's responsibility to mark them, not the buyer's... so if yours was legally imported don't worry about it, it is not your problem that it wasn't marked.

pipeman45 · 11-28-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Sabato
i

What process did you use to import this gun? If you or someone else smuggled it in (heaven forbid ... then the missing importers mark is small potatoes compared to the legal status of the gun)

..

Just a thought: I wonder just how many guns were smuggled into the country during or after WWII in GI duffel bags?

John Sabato · 11-28-2006, 02:19 PM

Plenty of guns came in in duffel bags pipeman45, but this is not post WW2, this is now and the times and the laws have changed seriously... Bring an unregistered gun secretly across the U.S. border into the USA from Canada or Mexico and you will find yourself subject to provisions of the Patriot Act... not just a firearm confiscation offense, I assure you.

pipeman45 · 11-28-2006, 02:27 PM

I do know and understand how times,and laws have changed. I was just wondering out loud about the number of and types of firearms that found new homes in the US during and after the war. Many I'm sure have not seen the light of day for years or decades. They are stuck back in trunks and sock drawers.
I would never advocate breaking the law.

Pete Ebbink · 11-28-2006, 02:35 PM

Gun on G-B and link to other photo-hosting site :

If I am not mistaken, these photos are from Andrew Zink's web site in CH. I recall Andrew offering a LP-08 rig about 1 month ago.

If you visit his web site, you can see the high quality of photos and set-up he uses for selling his weapons. His photograhy has its own quality "signature" if you have followed Andrew's web site for any time.

http://www.augustus.ch/

For anyone considering jumping in on the current G-B auction, it might be prudent to confirm with Andrew via e-mail that this gun is actually out of CH. Sometimes scam-artists "lift photos from another site and pretend they have it to sell/auction off and just run away with ones money. I doubt this is the case with the G-B seller; as he has a pretty strong feed-back record.

If it is out of CH and in the USA, I am sure Andrew did all the legal paperwork on his end, but he cannot control what the importer in the USA does to comply fully with USA laws. Andrew just does the paperwork on the CH end and then ships the package to the USA importer.

BTW...there is an absence of "halos" along some of the important serial number stampings, so more than likely this one was refinished in CH at some point in time after leaving Germany.

If this one had a Swiss cross/sunburst in place of the "1917" on its chamber, I would have bought it a month ago from Andrew, for certain

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=61268059

http://bikefixx.smugmug.com/gallery/1626051/1

(Text added on 11-29-06 by Pete : BTW...I noted this one went for around $ 2500 USD from the Zink site.)

11-27-2006, 08:54 PM	#1
SteveW User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Import Markings Question Recent listing on Gunbroker the seller stated: Near mint (98%+ finish) 1917 DWM Artillery Luger Pistol. This is a very fine unrestored, original example that I have just Legally imported from Switzerland. NO IMPORT MARKS ARE ON THIS FIREARM It was my understanding all imported guns had to be marked with the proper importation marks. Country of origin, importer etc. Are there some instances where the imported markings are not required? I realize that on pre 1898 guns it's not an issue.

11-28-2006, 08:59 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	import marks are sometimes very discreetly applied to areas not easily visible... some have been known to be placed on the small flat under the grips on the frame for instance... for a long time, the ATF was not very picky about where the marks were, or their size...only that they should be present and readable... I think this has now changed, but can't provide a reference... Check your gun carefully with a magnifying glass... you may find some stamps that are obviously not proof or inspection marks... What process did you use to import this gun? If you or someone else smuggled it in (heaven forbid ... then the missing importers mark is small potatoes compared to the legal status of the gun) ... it is the importer's responsibility to mark them, not the buyer's... so if yours was legally imported don't worry about it, it is not your problem that it wasn't marked. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-28-2006, 02:19 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Plenty of guns came in in duffel bags pipeman45, but this is not post WW2, this is now and the times and the laws have changed seriously... Bring an unregistered gun secretly across the U.S. border into the USA from Canada or Mexico and you will find yourself subject to provisions of the Patriot Act... not just a firearm confiscation offense, I assure you. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-28-2006, 02:27 PM	#6
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I do know and understand how times,and laws have changed. I was just wondering out loud about the number of and types of firearms that found new homes in the US during and after the war. Many I'm sure have not seen the light of day for years or decades. They are stuck back in trunks and sock drawers. I would never advocate breaking the law. __________________ Dave

11-27-2006, 09:48 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Steve, As I understand, any military surplus gun coming into the USA after 1968 are supposed to be import stamped. But with lots of refinishing of luger which are then sold as mint and original, the import stampings can easily disappear and I am not sure if this violates BATF stuff or not.

11-28-2006, 02:35 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Gun on G-B and link to other photo-hosting site : If I am not mistaken, these photos are from Andrew Zink's web site in CH. I recall Andrew offering a LP-08 rig about 1 month ago. If you visit his web site, you can see the high quality of photos and set-up he uses for selling his weapons. His photograhy has its own quality "signature" if you have followed Andrew's web site for any time. http://www.augustus.ch/ For anyone considering jumping in on the current G-B auction, it might be prudent to confirm with Andrew via e-mail that this gun is actually out of CH. Sometimes scam-artists "lift photos from another site and pretend they have it to sell/auction off and just run away with ones money. I doubt this is the case with the G-B seller; as he has a pretty strong feed-back record. If it is out of CH and in the USA, I am sure Andrew did all the legal paperwork on his end, but he cannot control what the importer in the USA does to comply fully with USA laws. Andrew just does the paperwork on the CH end and then ships the package to the USA importer. BTW...there is an absence of "halos" along some of the important serial number stampings, so more than likely this one was refinished in CH at some point in time after leaving Germany. If this one had a Swiss cross/sunburst in place of the "1917" on its chamber, I would have bought it a month ago from Andrew, for certain http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=61268059 http://bikefixx.smugmug.com/gallery/1626051/1 (Text added on 11-29-06 by Pete : BTW...I noted this one went for around $ 2500 USD from the Zink site.)