BYF-41 and Holster w/pix

ThePitbullofLove · 07-25-2005, 11:36 AM

Greetings gentlemen!

Just found your forum the other day, and I must say I'm impressed.

I've always loved the Luger ever since I was a kid and ran around with a life size pot-metal Luger capgun.

This past year, I finally found one that was in decent condition and was affordable.

It was actually picked up from a gunshop's table at a local gunshow. This vendor deals mostly with commercial arms, and rarely if ever has anything military on their table. Anyway, we were walking by when my brother and my friend both said "Ooooh...Luger!", which caused me to stop dead in my tracks.

And there it was, a Luger, and a period holster. It was offered at $875. Intrigued, I asked to see it. It was a BYF-41, appeared (at least externally) to be all matching, except for the unmarked mag. Hmmm. I gave it back and decided to think about it. That lasted 20 minuted of getting tag-teamed by my friend and my brother telling me how much I needed that pistol.

So I went back, made an offer that I thought was ridiculously low, and well, it came home with me. Turns out this pistol/holster was part of a vet's estate that the shop recently took in. It was the only military gun, save a pre-war Browning Hi-Power that sold earlier in the day. The owner of the shop said he wasn't much into military guns, which I gathered since I walked out with this one for $675.

Got it home, and it is indeed all-matching, except for the un-numbered magazine. The Holster is a bit worn, and appears brownish, 1936 dated with the droop winged eagle (WaA 101), and maker marked "Auvaerter & Bubeck, A.G. Stuttgart".

Inside the holster was an FXO mag with a plastic base. The numbering on the base was so worn as to be illegible.

The mag in the gun was a nickle plated magazine marked with a stylized P at the rear bottom, and wearing what look like Maltese crosses in the dimples of the base. I've been told this is a Swiss mag and that they're fairly well thought of. Is this the case?

So, questions-
Is the nickle mag Swiss? Is it worth any more than a typical magazine?
Is the FXO "correct" for a BYF-41? If not, what is?
What kind of loading tool would be correct?
How about the holster? Common maker? Common color?

The grips are this color on the inside...am I correct in assuming it's best I don't disturb the exterior's "patina"?
What's the deal about walnut vs. black plastic grips in the BYF's?

This is my first Luger, and I'm a bit of a noob, so please bear with me.

Thanks!

Oh, BTW
Link to even MORE pictures of the pistol

minigun · 07-25-2005, 01:11 PM

Sir, you did well. That's an insanely low price that you got that rig for. I can't help you on the mags, but the gun and holster are just really nice. I wouldn't do a thing to those grips. Don't put noth'in on it, just leave 'em be. Not every day that you run across something like that (especially for that price tag)!!!!!

Ron Wood · 07-25-2005, 01:22 PM

Leave it to a "noob" to find a real gem! Congratulations. As minigun says, you did very well. The Swiss magazine is for the 1929 Swiss model. It appears to be in excellent shape and is probably worth about $125 +/-. The base of your FXO magazine was never numbered, so you just have "dings" not worn off numbers.

John Sabato · 07-25-2005, 01:24 PM

Great price on the Gun and accompanying rig. The FXO mag is correct for the byf 41, but the Swiss mag was purchased as a spare. It is a high quality stamped magazine, while the FXO is an exceptional quality mag since it is extruded steel. The holster may have indeed been with the Luger when it was captured, but as it pre-dates the gun, they were not likely together at first issue.

Don't disturb the gun or grip finish... They are historically correct. Preserve this historical artifact for future generations with a quality lubrication and tender loving care. Use nothing on the grips OR the leather... keep the holster clean and dry and don't put anything on it. Any liquid of any kind will accelerate the aging process and break down the leather. Keep bubble wrap in the holster to maintain it's shape. Place a small fold of bubble wrap through the belt loops so they don't go flat from the weight of the holster and age. Use an inexpensive aftermarket magazine to keep the magazine pocket from collapsing or shrinking...

Congrat's on owning the finest military production Luger there is (short of a Kreighoff)

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

Edward Tinker · 07-25-2005, 03:43 PM

pit, I have seen you on other forums, glad you made it here! Welcome and I will send you $800 for the rig! Heck of a deal, congrats!!

Ed

ThePitbullofLove · 07-25-2005, 03:45 PM

$800? Let me think about it for a sec....

Um, no. Thanks

So what would this pistol/holster/mags go for on the "Luger market"? Not that I'm selling them anytime soon, but I would like to know what "market value" is. My Luger info source locally seldom pays over $600 for Lugers and has people bring them to him!

Glad to have found this forum!

Thanks for the welcome!

Edward Tinker · 07-25-2005, 03:53 PM

Send some matching, with holsters for $600 my way!

A byf is out of my collecting arena, I collect pre-nazi era, but $800-$1200 is not a bad price. Holster is fair condition... Disagree on the grips a bit, although yours are not nasty. If nasty, then cleaning them up a bit is okay by me, but what John and minigun said I do agree with, leave them alone is always best.

A "shooter" luger goes for around $500-$600, then the nicer they are, and/or the rarer they are, they go up in price. Simpson's has a byf 41 in 90% blueing at $1395 (retail of course)

Oh, and the "black widows" which go for a premium are simply a gun with plastic grips... No story, no truth to the story, just a plastic grips, but of course that makes the gun more valauble from all the stories....

Ed

Frank · 07-25-2005, 08:06 PM

Hi Pit, welcome you lucky dog!! The pistol is worth in the $1400 range. If you look on the right side of the receiver you will find the inspection marks (Waffenamt Marks) are eagle-over-135, I'll bet. There were only about 4000 of these 41 byf Lugers so marked and are semi-rare. Please don't do anything with the grips as they are numbered to the pistol and also marked E/135. You made one heck of a deal!! Congrats!

PS Don't listen to Ed, I'll give you $900 for the whole set!!

ThePitbullofLove · 07-25-2005, 08:41 PM

For real? one of 4,000???

Edward Tinker · 07-25-2005, 09:19 PM

Frank would know!

Sounds like a collector piece and not a shooter

ed

ThePitbullofLove · 07-25-2005, 09:35 PM

You mean I have to buy another Luger now?

Oh, darn...

G.W. Gill · 07-25-2005, 11:41 PM

Hi, Did you get a tool in the pouch? , and did it have a 135 also? If not , get one before they become prohibitively expensive. Great find! Fantistic !

Johnny C. Kitchens · 07-26-2005, 12:56 AM

I've got one of those Swiss magazines. I bought a byf 42 back in 79 and it didn't shoot reliably. I read an article by Michael Reese III that recommended the Swiss mag to improve reliability. He was right. It certainly improve the gun. I hope you have a loading tool, if you intend to shoot the gun. Using your thumb on the button to pull it down gets old very fast. My Swiss mag looks just like yours...

thegundude · 07-26-2005, 12:14 PM

Brian, nice find (you always get the best deals) and welcome to the forums!

Watch out now, you'll get sucked into this Luger thing just like it was quicksand...

Balder · 07-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Pitbull,

Congrats on your find, what a way to start a Luger collection!

Frank,

I have "Black Widow" byf 42, also with the WaA 135 stamp. Do you know how many of these were made in 1942?

Regards,

Balder

Pete Ebbink · 07-26-2005, 04:16 PM

Hi Brian,

Congratulations on a very nice buy !

One question : On the underside of your right wooden grip panel, is that a brad/nail I see that might have been some kind of repair to the wood...to stop a split ?

Here is a close-up of your photo :

thegundude · 07-26-2005, 05:48 PM

Sharp eye you've got there Pete!

Ron Wood · 07-26-2005, 06:03 PM

Pete,
That is a dimple in the wood caused by the end of the recoil lever pin that is either a little too long or is not set flush with the frame.

thegundude · 07-26-2005, 06:17 PM

I am in awe of both of you.....:O

Frank · 07-26-2005, 09:07 PM

Balder, there were about 113,000 byf Lugers made in 1942 for the German Military. An additional 5,000 or so were sold to Portugal and another about 6,000 sold to Bulgaria. To the best of my knowledge all 42 byf Lugers are Waffenamt Marked with the double E/135 marks.

The 41 byf Lugers were marked with double E/655 during the early production and double E/135 in late 1941. Some are marked E/655 and E/135, but not many!!!

07-25-2005, 11:36 AM	#1
ThePitbullofLove User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BYF-41 and Holster w/pix Greetings gentlemen! Just found your forum the other day, and I must say I'm impressed. I've always loved the Luger ever since I was a kid and ran around with a life size pot-metal Luger capgun. This past year, I finally found one that was in decent condition and was affordable. It was actually picked up from a gunshop's table at a local gunshow. This vendor deals mostly with commercial arms, and rarely if ever has anything military on their table. Anyway, we were walking by when my brother and my friend both said "Ooooh...Luger!", which caused me to stop dead in my tracks. And there it was, a Luger, and a period holster. It was offered at $875. Intrigued, I asked to see it. It was a BYF-41, appeared (at least externally) to be all matching, except for the unmarked mag. Hmmm. I gave it back and decided to think about it. That lasted 20 minuted of getting tag-teamed by my friend and my brother telling me how much I needed that pistol. So I went back, made an offer that I thought was ridiculously low, and well, it came home with me. Turns out this pistol/holster was part of a vet's estate that the shop recently took in. It was the only military gun, save a pre-war Browning Hi-Power that sold earlier in the day. The owner of the shop said he wasn't much into military guns, which I gathered since I walked out with this one for $675. Got it home, and it is indeed all-matching, except for the un-numbered magazine. The Holster is a bit worn, and appears brownish, 1936 dated with the droop winged eagle (WaA 101), and maker marked "Auvaerter & Bubeck, A.G. Stuttgart". Inside the holster was an FXO mag with a plastic base. The numbering on the base was so worn as to be illegible. The mag in the gun was a nickle plated magazine marked with a stylized P at the rear bottom, and wearing what look like Maltese crosses in the dimples of the base. I've been told this is a Swiss mag and that they're fairly well thought of. Is this the case? So, questions- Is the nickle mag Swiss? Is it worth any more than a typical magazine? Is the FXO "correct" for a BYF-41? If not, what is? What kind of loading tool would be correct? How about the holster? Common maker? Common color? The grips are this color on the inside...am I correct in assuming it's best I don't disturb the exterior's "patina"? What's the deal about walnut vs. black plastic grips in the BYF's? This is my first Luger, and I'm a bit of a noob, so please bear with me. Thanks! Oh, BTW Link to even MORE pictures of the pistol

07-25-2005, 01:22 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,241 Times in 1,719 Posts	Leave it to a "noob" to find a real gem! Congratulations. As minigun says, you did very well. The Swiss magazine is for the 1929 Swiss model. It appears to be in excellent shape and is probably worth about $125 +/-. The base of your FXO magazine was never numbered, so you just have "dings" not worn off numbers. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-25-2005, 01:24 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Great price on the Gun and accompanying rig. The FXO mag is correct for the byf 41, but the Swiss mag was purchased as a spare. It is a high quality stamped magazine, while the FXO is an exceptional quality mag since it is extruded steel. The holster may have indeed been with the Luger when it was captured, but as it pre-dates the gun, they were not likely together at first issue. Don't disturb the gun or grip finish... They are historically correct. Preserve this historical artifact for future generations with a quality lubrication and tender loving care. Use nothing on the grips OR the leather... keep the holster clean and dry and don't put anything on it. Any liquid of any kind will accelerate the aging process and break down the leather. Keep bubble wrap in the holster to maintain it's shape. Place a small fold of bubble wrap through the belt loops so they don't go flat from the weight of the holster and age. Use an inexpensive aftermarket magazine to keep the magazine pocket from collapsing or shrinking... Congrat's on owning the finest military production Luger there is (short of a Kreighoff) Welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-25-2005, 03:43 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	pit, I have seen you on other forums, glad you made it here! Welcome and I will send you $800 for the rig! Heck of a deal, congrats!! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-26-2005, 12:56 AM	#13
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I've got one of those Swiss magazines. I bought a byf 42 back in 79 and it didn't shoot reliably. I read an article by Michael Reese III that recommended the Swiss mag to improve reliability. He was right. It certainly improve the gun. I hope you have a loading tool, if you intend to shoot the gun. Using your thumb on the button to pull it down gets old very fast. My Swiss mag looks just like yours... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

07-25-2005, 01:11 PM	#2
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Sir, you did well. That's an insanely low price that you got that rig for. I can't help you on the mags, but the gun and holster are just really nice. I wouldn't do a thing to those grips. Don't put noth'in on it, just leave 'em be. Not every day that you run across something like that (especially for that price tag)!!!!!

07-25-2005, 03:45 PM	#6
ThePitbullofLove User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	$800? Let me think about it for a sec.... Um, no. Thanks So what would this pistol/holster/mags go for on the "Luger market"? Not that I'm selling them anytime soon, but I would like to know what "market value" is. My Luger info source locally seldom pays over $600 for Lugers and has people bring them to him! Glad to have found this forum! Thanks for the welcome!

07-25-2005, 03:53 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Send some matching, with holsters for $600 my way! A byf is out of my collecting arena, I collect pre-nazi era, but $800-$1200 is not a bad price. Holster is fair condition... Disagree on the grips a bit, although yours are not nasty. If nasty, then cleaning them up a bit is okay by me, but what John and minigun said I do agree with, leave them alone is always best. A "shooter" luger goes for around $500-$600, then the nicer they are, and/or the rarer they are, they go up in price. Simpson's has a byf 41 in 90% blueing at $1395 (retail of course) Oh, and the "black widows" which go for a premium are simply a gun with plastic grips... No story, no truth to the story, just a plastic grips, but of course that makes the gun more valauble from all the stories.... Ed

07-25-2005, 08:06 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Pit, welcome you lucky dog!! The pistol is worth in the $1400 range. If you look on the right side of the receiver you will find the inspection marks (Waffenamt Marks) are eagle-over-135, I'll bet. There were only about 4000 of these 41 byf Lugers so marked and are semi-rare. Please don't do anything with the grips as they are numbered to the pistol and also marked E/135. You made one heck of a deal!! Congrats! PS Don't listen to Ed, I'll give you $900 for the whole set!!

07-25-2005, 08:41 PM	#9
ThePitbullofLove User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For real? one of 4,000???

07-25-2005, 09:19 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Frank would know! Sounds like a collector piece and not a shooter ed

07-25-2005, 09:35 PM	#11
ThePitbullofLove User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You mean I have to buy another Luger now? Oh, darn...

07-25-2005, 11:41 PM	#12
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, Did you get a tool in the pouch? , and did it have a 135 also? If not , get one before they become prohibitively expensive. Great find! Fantistic !

07-26-2005, 12:14 PM	#14
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Brian, nice find (you always get the best deals) and welcome to the forums! Watch out now, you'll get sucked into this Luger thing just like it was quicksand... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

07-26-2005, 01:50 PM	#15
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Pitbull, Congrats on your find, what a way to start a Luger collection! Frank, I have "Black Widow" byf 42, also with the WaA 135 stamp. Do you know how many of these were made in 1942? Regards, Balder

07-26-2005, 04:16 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Brian, Congratulations on a very nice buy ! One question : On the underside of your right wooden grip panel, is that a brad/nail I see that might have been some kind of repair to the wood...to stop a split ? Here is a close-up of your photo :

07-26-2005, 05:48 PM	#17
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Sharp eye you've got there Pete! __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

07-26-2005, 06:03 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,241 Times in 1,719 Posts	Pete, That is a dimple in the wood caused by the end of the recoil lever pin that is either a little too long or is not set flush with the frame. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-26-2005, 06:17 PM	#19
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	I am in awe of both of you.....:O __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

07-26-2005, 09:07 PM	#20
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Balder, there were about 113,000 byf Lugers made in 1942 for the German Military. An additional 5,000 or so were sold to Portugal and another about 6,000 sold to Bulgaria. To the best of my knowledge all 42 byf Lugers are Waffenamt Marked with the double E/135 marks. The 41 byf Lugers were marked with double E/655 during the early production and double E/135 in late 1941. Some are marked E/655 and E/135, but not many!!!