Markings on 1936 S/42

southriv · 06-26-2005, 07:05 PM

There are some strange markings on the slide, next to the serial number. I also noticed that the parts that are usually strawed on this year are not, the barrel finish is shiny, the suffix "a" looks a little strange (should it even be on the slide?) and the glossy base of the "matched" mag looks wrong? Repro grips?

I believe the seller is honest (not a Luger guy & selling for someone else)...I'm just curious about this. I'm still (always) learning & wanted to know if my intuition about this one is right.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=33683427

Bob

Frank · 06-26-2005, 08:36 PM

Hi Bob, there are many things wrong with this Luger. First, it has been refinished judging the rounded corners, lack of machine marks and the barrel shine. The barrel doesn't have any proof marks that I can see. The small parts should be strawed and they are not.

The magazine is a center pin type and should be a single side pin type. It is numbered in the style of a Police Luger, but it has been renumbered.

The grips are ill fitting and are most probably post war reproductions.

No way this Luger is worth $1300, which is the starting bid. That is unless you want to contribute to the NC Baptist Fund.

Regarding the circles on the left side of the receiver - I don't have a clue!!

southriv · 06-26-2005, 09:10 PM

Thanks, Frank.

I am just learning a bit more about magazines. There seems to be more forced matches out there than people realize. The ill fit, color & lack of craftsmanship on the grips are what got me to question those. I just plain curious about the origin of this piece. It does not seem to fit within the relm of any arsenal work that may have occured - pre or post war. It doesn't look like any Vopo, Russian or Finn rework. I want to guess that it is a homegrown job, but I am just not sure - especially with the strange marks on the slide.

Bob

Vlim · 06-27-2005, 06:09 AM

I think it has a certain VoPo style. The marks are a crude attempt to remove earlier proof marks (probably Western-German ones, as many of them went through West-German proof houses). The renumbered receiver looks like it has VoPo-style dies used, pretty similar to my VoPo frankenluger.

I think the receiver was not part of the original pistol and was replaced at some point in time.

southriv · 06-27-2005, 09:15 AM

Gerben - so, it may be more of a parts gun than I initially thought. BTW, my last name is Van Gelder - my family came from Amsterdam to the US in 1910.

Bob

Vlim · 06-27-2005, 10:32 AM

Nice to meet a Dutch descendant.

Just a pity that someone removed the proofs. I like VoPo's.
I bet the mag is a 1001-coded VoPo mag.

southriv · 06-27-2005, 10:51 AM

I guess what confused me about the Vopo heritage is that I've had two in the past (both sold to friends as their first lugers) & this one is so different. Now that you mention it, however, I would bet that you are correct on the mag as I recently saw other Vopo with what I believe was a 1001 code forced match mag.

I agree that Vopos are kind of neat. These reworks often date back over 50 years. With so many around now ( and, possibly, the sources drying up) hopefully someone will start grouping them into various types and armory/rework editions.

Bob

Frank · 06-27-2005, 05:25 PM

Gerben and Bob, my Great Grandfather immigrated to the US in the late 1800's from Holland. I guess that makes this an all "Dutch" Post!!

Vlim · 06-28-2005, 01:11 PM

Bob,

There seems to be quite a bit of variation within the VoPo group. Many that I have seen never got any police proofing and were most probably just stored or issued to other branches under the control of the DDR Departement of Interior.

Frank: nice!

southriv · 06-29-2005, 12:51 AM

Gerben & Frank,

Thanks for chiming in - one last note on the Dutch connection.... it was in the Netherlands that Benjamin Franklin finally found the financing for the American Revolution. I thought this was a timely observation considering the backround of those on this thread and the fact that our indepedence celebration, the Fourth of July, is coming up this weekend.

Still curious about those marks on the reciever - I know I've seen them somewhere, but I can't place it. It also appears that they were stamped three times....anyway, I think I'll move up and read the thread above on Dutch East Indies Lugers as one of my projects for later this year is to purchase a Dutch luger (finally!)

Bob

Edward Tinker · 06-29-2005, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by southriv
Still curious about those marks on the reciever - I know I've seen them somewhere, but I can't place it. It also appears that they were stamped three times....Bob

They look like the 3 ring for the Nagoya Arsenal for Japan, but are not (I think that is the aresenal, but you get my point).

I think they are peens, to mark out something, maybe an "x" like showing it is a russian capture?

I lived in der Nederlands for almost 7 years, wonderful place, great people.

Ed

06-26-2005, 07:05 PM	#1
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Markings on 1936 S/42 There are some strange markings on the slide, next to the serial number. I also noticed that the parts that are usually strawed on this year are not, the barrel finish is shiny, the suffix "a" looks a little strange (should it even be on the slide?) and the glossy base of the "matched" mag looks wrong? Repro grips? I believe the seller is honest (not a Luger guy & selling for someone else)...I'm just curious about this. I'm still (always) learning & wanted to know if my intuition about this one is right. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=33683427 Bob

06-26-2005, 08:36 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Bob, there are many things wrong with this Luger. First, it has been refinished judging the rounded corners, lack of machine marks and the barrel shine. The barrel doesn't have any proof marks that I can see. The small parts should be strawed and they are not. The magazine is a center pin type and should be a single side pin type. It is numbered in the style of a Police Luger, but it has been renumbered. The grips are ill fitting and are most probably post war reproductions. No way this Luger is worth $1300, which is the starting bid. That is unless you want to contribute to the NC Baptist Fund. Regarding the circles on the left side of the receiver - I don't have a clue!!

06-26-2005, 09:10 PM	#3
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Frank. I am just learning a bit more about magazines. There seems to be more forced matches out there than people realize. The ill fit, color & lack of craftsmanship on the grips are what got me to question those. I just plain curious about the origin of this piece. It does not seem to fit within the relm of any arsenal work that may have occured - pre or post war. It doesn't look like any Vopo, Russian or Finn rework. I want to guess that it is a homegrown job, but I am just not sure - especially with the strange marks on the slide. Bob

06-27-2005, 06:09 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	I think it has a certain VoPo style. The marks are a crude attempt to remove earlier proof marks (probably Western-German ones, as many of them went through West-German proof houses). The renumbered receiver looks like it has VoPo-style dies used, pretty similar to my VoPo frankenluger. I think the receiver was not part of the original pistol and was replaced at some point in time.

06-27-2005, 09:15 AM	#5
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gerben - so, it may be more of a parts gun than I initially thought. BTW, my last name is Van Gelder - my family came from Amsterdam to the US in 1910. Bob

06-27-2005, 10:32 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Nice to meet a Dutch descendant. Just a pity that someone removed the proofs. I like VoPo's. I bet the mag is a 1001-coded VoPo mag.

06-27-2005, 10:51 AM	#7
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I guess what confused me about the Vopo heritage is that I've had two in the past (both sold to friends as their first lugers) & this one is so different. Now that you mention it, however, I would bet that you are correct on the mag as I recently saw other Vopo with what I believe was a 1001 code forced match mag. I agree that Vopos are kind of neat. These reworks often date back over 50 years. With so many around now ( and, possibly, the sources drying up) hopefully someone will start grouping them into various types and armory/rework editions. Bob

06-27-2005, 05:25 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Gerben and Bob, my Great Grandfather immigrated to the US in the late 1800's from Holland. I guess that makes this an all "Dutch" Post!!

06-28-2005, 01:11 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Bob, There seems to be quite a bit of variation within the VoPo group. Many that I have seen never got any police proofing and were most probably just stored or issued to other branches under the control of the DDR Departement of Interior. Frank: nice!

06-29-2005, 12:51 AM	#10
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gerben & Frank, Thanks for chiming in - one last note on the Dutch connection.... it was in the Netherlands that Benjamin Franklin finally found the financing for the American Revolution. I thought this was a timely observation considering the backround of those on this thread and the fact that our indepedence celebration, the Fourth of July, is coming up this weekend. Still curious about those marks on the reciever - I know I've seen them somewhere, but I can't place it. It also appears that they were stamped three times....anyway, I think I'll move up and read the thread above on Dutch East Indies Lugers as one of my projects for later this year is to purchase a Dutch luger (finally!) Bob