Royal Oak,Mich Artillery

Big Norm · 04-14-2005, 02:14 PM

There was some talk in the Discussion section of this forum about a 1915 artillery on the Midwest Ordnance website. I went to this gun shop yesterday to inspect this artillery.

www.midwestordnance.com

Not only is the gun not worth $3000, its not worth $2000 either. Maybe someplace around $1500 or less. It is a 1915 artillery Luger but is has a lot of light freckling on it. The numbers do all match and the gun has not been messed with. But the bore is very badly pitted. What bluing is showing is a dull blue.

The owner said that the gun should be worth a lot of money because a cleaning rods handle matched the grips in color. The grips look like the were recheckerd and not restained. So they matched the blond color of the handle on the artillery cleaning rod. Oh, the bore on the artillery is badly pitted.

The owner also showed me an artillery holster and I don't know if it comes with the gun. But the holster is an after market repro that has been used. The stitching on the strap is loose. The pocket for the take down tool is a repair addition.

I asked if I could see if the grips were numbered to the gun and the owner looked apprehensive. Since I wasn't really interested the gun at this point, I didn't feel the need to push the issue on a minor point after seeing how badly pitted the bore was..

The owner then showed me a chamber dated 1921 9mm P-08 which told me came with two matching mags and a 'numbered to the gun' holster. I didn't get the price but the gun itself did not look real bad. Dull bluing and all matching numbers. The bore did not look too bad either.

The two matching mags were mags that had their numbers filed off and new number stamped on them. The holster had a manufacturers mark on the inside but I could not make it out. Somebody embossed the guns serial number on the outside backside of the holster. The holster didn't seem to be in all that bad a condition. But nothing outstanding.

I should have gotten the price on this rig(?) but I guess that I was too emotionally down after looking at the artillery Luger. Did I tell you that the bore on the artillery was badly pitted?

After hammering the guns so much, I feel its only right to say that the people in the shop were pretty nice. But I still can not imagine how they came up with a price of $3000 on the artillery.
Big Norm

Tomathvl · 04-14-2005, 03:22 PM

Big Norm,
Did you check the bore? What condition was it in?
Thanks,
Tom

Big Norm · 04-14-2005, 05:58 PM

Tom,
I'm checking my notes now. Actually, since only 15,000 1915's were produced, this date is a pretty desirable addition to a collection. I was mentioned by Fritzer in the description section of this forum and I received a couple of phone calls and emails regarding this artillery. So I felt justified in expressing my opinion and saving some mailing costs to people who might buy it and have to later return it. Its senseless to let friends waste mailing costs both ways. $3,000 is a lot of money for an artillery and suggests a quality gun.
The only thing that bothers me is that my opinion suggests that I have an ax to grind with this dealer. This was only my second visit to this shop and they always have treated me OK. There is no ax to grind.
Big Norm

Fritzer · 04-14-2005, 08:58 PM

Norm,
Thanks for investing the time to look and share your detailed findings.
I apologize for callin' you out on this one, sounds like I caused you to make the trip to look it over. And it turned out to be a poor example as well as over priced.

I really appreciate your sharp eye and honest opinions.
Sorry for all the trouble,
Best Regards.
Fritz.

Big Norm · 04-14-2005, 10:38 PM

Fritzer,
don't worry about it. Its good to check these things out because you only have to succeed once to be a winner. I went in knowing that I wouldn't buy it because I already have a 1915 full rig with my holster dated to the gun. Jerry Peters turned the gun down just on the price alone. He also asked me to look at the gun just to confirm that he did the right thing. He did.
After I called Jerry, I talked to some other guys and found that this dealer has a reputation for being very high priced. They deal a lot in imports. But what the heck, the weather was good and Royal Oak is a nice place to walk around in.
This week end we have the Novi show. So I wanted to keep my powder dry for that thing. Once in a while something pops up there. While its not saying much, it is the best antique gun show in Michigan.
Big Norm

southriv · 04-15-2005, 09:18 AM

Being also into motorcycles, I checked out the "Rare Motorcycle". Looks like the Chinese Chang Jiang 750 knockoff (of the Russion knockoff) of the wartime R71 Flathead that is being currently marketed with some BMW stickers slapped on.

http://www.vintagesidecar.com/images...th%20CJ750.jpg

Sellers can be nice, but I think inflated desciptions and prices are not a way to attract nice paying customers.

04-14-2005, 02:14 PM	#1
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Royal Oak,Mich Artillery There was some talk in the Discussion section of this forum about a 1915 artillery on the Midwest Ordnance website. I went to this gun shop yesterday to inspect this artillery. www.midwestordnance.com Not only is the gun not worth $3000, its not worth $2000 either. Maybe someplace around $1500 or less. It is a 1915 artillery Luger but is has a lot of light freckling on it. The numbers do all match and the gun has not been messed with. But the bore is very badly pitted. What bluing is showing is a dull blue. The owner said that the gun should be worth a lot of money because a cleaning rods handle matched the grips in color. The grips look like the were recheckerd and not restained. So they matched the blond color of the handle on the artillery cleaning rod. Oh, the bore on the artillery is badly pitted. The owner also showed me an artillery holster and I don't know if it comes with the gun. But the holster is an after market repro that has been used. The stitching on the strap is loose. The pocket for the take down tool is a repair addition. I asked if I could see if the grips were numbered to the gun and the owner looked apprehensive. Since I wasn't really interested the gun at this point, I didn't feel the need to push the issue on a minor point after seeing how badly pitted the bore was.. The owner then showed me a chamber dated 1921 9mm P-08 which told me came with two matching mags and a 'numbered to the gun' holster. I didn't get the price but the gun itself did not look real bad. Dull bluing and all matching numbers. The bore did not look too bad either. The two matching mags were mags that had their numbers filed off and new number stamped on them. The holster had a manufacturers mark on the inside but I could not make it out. Somebody embossed the guns serial number on the outside backside of the holster. The holster didn't seem to be in all that bad a condition. But nothing outstanding. I should have gotten the price on this rig(?) but I guess that I was too emotionally down after looking at the artillery Luger. Did I tell you that the bore on the artillery was badly pitted? After hammering the guns so much, I feel its only right to say that the people in the shop were pretty nice. But I still can not imagine how they came up with a price of $3000 on the artillery. Big Norm

04-14-2005, 03:22 PM	#2
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Big Norm, Did you check the bore? What condition was it in? Thanks, Tom

04-14-2005, 05:58 PM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom, I'm checking my notes now. Actually, since only 15,000 1915's were produced, this date is a pretty desirable addition to a collection. I was mentioned by Fritzer in the description section of this forum and I received a couple of phone calls and emails regarding this artillery. So I felt justified in expressing my opinion and saving some mailing costs to people who might buy it and have to later return it. Its senseless to let friends waste mailing costs both ways. $3,000 is a lot of money for an artillery and suggests a quality gun. The only thing that bothers me is that my opinion suggests that I have an ax to grind with this dealer. This was only my second visit to this shop and they always have treated me OK. There is no ax to grind. Big Norm

04-14-2005, 08:58 PM	#4
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norm, Thanks for investing the time to look and share your detailed findings. I apologize for callin' you out on this one, sounds like I caused you to make the trip to look it over. And it turned out to be a poor example as well as over priced. I really appreciate your sharp eye and honest opinions. Sorry for all the trouble, Best Regards. Fritz.

04-14-2005, 10:38 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Fritzer, don't worry about it. Its good to check these things out because you only have to succeed once to be a winner. I went in knowing that I wouldn't buy it because I already have a 1915 full rig with my holster dated to the gun. Jerry Peters turned the gun down just on the price alone. He also asked me to look at the gun just to confirm that he did the right thing. He did. After I called Jerry, I talked to some other guys and found that this dealer has a reputation for being very high priced. They deal a lot in imports. But what the heck, the weather was good and Royal Oak is a nice place to walk around in. This week end we have the Novi show. So I wanted to keep my powder dry for that thing. Once in a while something pops up there. While its not saying much, it is the best antique gun show in Michigan. Big Norm

04-15-2005, 09:18 AM	#6
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Being also into motorcycles, I checked out the "Rare Motorcycle". Looks like the Chinese Chang Jiang 750 knockoff (of the Russion knockoff) of the wartime R71 Flathead that is being currently marketed with some BMW stickers slapped on. http://www.vintagesidecar.com/images...th%20CJ750.jpg Sellers can be nice, but I think inflated desciptions and prices are not a way to attract nice paying customers.