No serial numbers, no proof marks!?

06-07-2001, 02:50 PM

I have just been offered a DWM 7,65mm pistol with an under 4" barrel. I take it to be a 1920 commercial model. However, it has no proof marks and no serial numbers. There is a two digit number under the barrel, on the front grip strap and inside the top of the frame. It is rust blued with a not particuarly good polish to the metal and appears completely original.

Any ideas?

Thaks

Peter

Thor · 06-07-2001, 02:53 PM

i passed up a perfectly good artillery because it had no serials, not worth the hassle to have it reserialized to me. Sounds like someone is trying to unload it! Thor

John Sabato · 06-07-2001, 03:02 PM

it should be okay to purchase it...

You can use the two-digit number you mentioned as the serial number. Are there any photos or scans available of this pistol? If so post'em here and give us a looksee...

Is the seller willing to give you a notarized bill of sale?

Go For It! It could be one of those 'lunch box specials' we have heard about, and perfectly legal to buy depending on where you live...

If it appears that the front of the frame has been ground and polished and re-numbered, or the lower is somewhat shorter than the upper receiver, be afraid, be very afraid...!

PASS!

-my $0.02

-John

BILL · 06-07-2001, 04:38 PM

Is the issue whether it is a stolen gun or an 'authentic' original? A two digit serial on the barrel doesn't sound proper. What is the statute of limitations on stolen handguns? (If it is a 'lunchbox' special, then it might have been stolen from DWM..they might still be looking for it).

John Sabato · 06-08-2001, 09:05 AM

If the number has been ground off the front of the frame, it is an illegal firearm regardless of it's origin. If the number (two-digit or otherwise) is original, then unless it is stolen, it is not an illegal gun.

The things that were done during the weimar era and the use of old parts to create the commercial pistols during the 20's means that there is a fair chance that this firearm is legitimate IF there is no evidence of grinding or serial number defacement.

Johnny Peppers · 06-08-2001, 02:49 PM

As the Luger was never serial numbered on the grip strap, it would be a stretch to accept the number as a serial number.

Thor · 06-08-2001, 05:51 PM

Sorry to read this so late John, this was the only photo I found.

06-10-2001, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the responses. I am not worried about the legal status because the gun is currently licensed. My thought is that it is a lunchbox special. There is no evidence of any grinding or other modifications.

Of course, if the seller doesn't accept my offer then it is all theoretical as far as I am concerned!

Peter

06-07-2001, 02:50 PM	#1
Peter Guest Posts: n/a	No serial numbers, no proof marks!? I have just been offered a DWM 7,65mm pistol with an under 4" barrel. I take it to be a 1920 commercial model. However, it has no proof marks and no serial numbers. There is a two digit number under the barrel, on the front grip strap and inside the top of the frame. It is rust blued with a not particuarly good polish to the metal and appears completely original. Any ideas? Thaks Peter

06-07-2001, 02:53 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: No serial numbers, no proof marks!? i passed up a perfectly good artillery because it had no serials, not worth the hassle to have it reserialized to me. Sounds like someone is trying to unload it! Thor

06-07-2001, 03:02 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	As long as it doesn't appear to have been altered... it should be okay to purchase it... You can use the two-digit number you mentioned as the serial number. Are there any photos or scans available of this pistol? If so post'em here and give us a looksee... Is the seller willing to give you a notarized bill of sale? Go For It! It could be one of those 'lunch box specials' we have heard about, and perfectly legal to buy depending on where you live... If it appears that the front of the frame has been ground and polished and re-numbered, or the lower is somewhat shorter than the upper receiver, be afraid, be very afraid...! PASS! -my $0.02 -John

06-07-2001, 04:38 PM	#4
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: As long as it doesn't appear to have been altered... Is the issue whether it is a stolen gun or an 'authentic' original? A two digit serial on the barrel doesn't sound proper. What is the statute of limitations on stolen handguns? (If it is a 'lunchbox' special, then it might have been stolen from DWM..they might still be looking for it).

06-08-2001, 09:05 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The issue to me is its legal status as a firearm If the number has been ground off the front of the frame, it is an illegal firearm regardless of it's origin. If the number (two-digit or otherwise) is original, then unless it is stolen, it is not an illegal gun. The things that were done during the weimar era and the use of old parts to create the commercial pistols during the 20's means that there is a fair chance that this firearm is legitimate IF there is no evidence of grinding or serial number defacement.

06-08-2001, 02:49 PM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: The issue to me is its legal status as a firearm As the Luger was never serial numbered on the grip strap, it would be a stretch to accept the number as a serial number.

06-08-2001, 05:51 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: As long as it doesn't appear to have been altered... Sorry to read this so late John, this was the only photo I found.

06-10-2001, 01:52 PM	#8
Peter Guest Posts: n/a	Re: The issue to me is its legal status as a firearm Thanks for the responses. I am not worried about the legal status because the gun is currently licensed. My thought is that it is a lunchbox special. There is no evidence of any grinding or other modifications. Of course, if the seller doesn't accept my offer then it is all theoretical as far as I am concerned! Peter