Some help with a Commercial?

barr44 · 03-23-2008, 01:33 PM

I recently acquired what appears to be a commercial model luger. It is serial no. 7305k with Germany stamped between the s.n. and the k on the front of the receiver. All of the parts are numbered with the 05, except the bolt which has a 55 on the back. The receiver and first toggle link are C/N proofed. It has a wooden bottom magazine which is not numbered. I believe the grips have been replaced, since they are not numbered. The barrel has no proof or s.n., doesn't even have a witness mark. I've read where some of the barrels on commercials weren't proofed or numbered. I suspect the barrel may have been replaced, however, it does appear to have the correct dimensions(6") and correct sight. The gun has been reconditioned and it appears to be a fairly good job. Besides the barrel, the serial number doesn't seem to match what I've been able to find on the commercial lugers. However, I'm not overly familiar with all of the variables with these guns, so I may be all wrong.
I would appreciate any insights and information, those of you with the knowledge would care to share with me.
I have enclosed some photos.
Thanks, barry

alvin · 03-23-2008, 05:58 PM

It started its life as a Weimar Alphabet, so we see C/N on receiver and toggle link, blank chamber, "GERMANY" on the frame, and s/n 7305k.

The barrel was replaced using aftermarket 6" barrel product by someone, so no proof, no witness mark.

The 55 on the back of the bolt for Weimar Alphabet is normal. It's not partial s/n. I guess it's a batch number or assembly number. Would you post a picture of this number showing its position and shape?

It's reconditioned non-professionally. Not a problem as long as the condition is reflected in the acquiring price. Everyone needs a few shooters. Considering 7,65 ammo's price ($40+ per box in local stores!!), a shooter must be 9m/m. So it's good.

barr44 · 03-23-2008, 07:59 PM

Thanks Alvin,
I don't quite understand - what exactly is a 'Weimar Alphabet'? Are you saying the commercial lugers used the alphabetic characters as part of their serial number? I was thinking that only the military models would be numbered with the alphabetic characters in the serial number. That's kinda why I didn't understand why a C/N proofed model would have alphabetic characters in the serial number.
Yeah, I know I'm kind of thick. Here's an image of the back of the bolt. Barry
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bolt1.jpg

Edward Tinker · 03-23-2008, 09:10 PM

Barry, Weimar Alphabet luger is the designation given to these era of lugers through the 1920's and very early 193o's.

Ed

Ron Wood · 03-23-2008, 09:48 PM

Barry,
Yes, you are correct...as Ed has indicated, commercial lugers manufactured in the 1920's used the alphabetic characters as part of their serial number. The commercial style of a 5-digit serial number was closing in on 6 digits. Rather than going to 6 digits the "alphabet" series of commercials picked up with the letter "i" (the ninth letter in the alphabet indicating a block of 10,000 guns) therefore a Luger in this series would be numbered "xxxx i" (or production number 9x,xxx). So your gun's serial number 7305k is effectively 117,305.

MFC · 03-23-2008, 11:15 PM

Ron,
I think you forgot they skipped the "j" suffix... so 107,305 would be correct.

Barry,
The alphabetized system started at 2000i which is equal to 92000. According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers your gun was made in 1922. It's classified as an Alphabet DWM... formerly known as a 1920 Commercial.
Mike C.

Ron Wood · 03-24-2008, 01:16 AM

Thank you Mike! I forget lots of things. One of the advantages of advancing years.

When I don't stick to Imperial stuff, I wander off into uncharted waters. I appreciate a more authoritative answer, as I am sure Barry does also.

barr44 · 03-24-2008, 04:57 PM

My thanks to all you good folks that answered my inquiries.
I really do appreciate your time. As you can probably determine, I'm fairly new to the Luger genre. I have been collecting some of the Mausers, the C-96s and some of their pocket pistols. I also delve into some of the other collectibles, like Sauer and Walther. I have often wanted to collect the luger but have found them to be rather expensive.
I've managed to acquire a few of the lugers, but mostly mixed no. guns. I do enjoy shooting them though and found that the longer 6" barrel seems to have more of a barrel lift than the 4" barrel ones do.
Anyway, I appreciate your help and will continue to monitor some of the other posts to possible learn more. Thanks again, barry

03-23-2008, 01:33 PM	#1
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Some help with a Commercial? I recently acquired what appears to be a commercial model luger. It is serial no. 7305k with Germany stamped between the s.n. and the k on the front of the receiver. All of the parts are numbered with the 05, except the bolt which has a 55 on the back. The receiver and first toggle link are C/N proofed. It has a wooden bottom magazine which is not numbered. I believe the grips have been replaced, since they are not numbered. The barrel has no proof or s.n., doesn't even have a witness mark. I've read where some of the barrels on commercials weren't proofed or numbered. I suspect the barrel may have been replaced, however, it does appear to have the correct dimensions(6") and correct sight. The gun has been reconditioned and it appears to be a fairly good job. Besides the barrel, the serial number doesn't seem to match what I've been able to find on the commercial lugers. However, I'm not overly familiar with all of the variables with these guns, so I may be all wrong. I would appreciate any insights and information, those of you with the knowledge would care to share with me. I have enclosed some photos. Thanks, barry

03-23-2008, 09:10 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Barry, Weimar Alphabet luger is the designation given to these era of lugers through the 1920's and very early 193o's. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-23-2008, 09:48 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Barry, Yes, you are correct...as Ed has indicated, commercial lugers manufactured in the 1920's used the alphabetic characters as part of their serial number. The commercial style of a 5-digit serial number was closing in on 6 digits. Rather than going to 6 digits the "alphabet" series of commercials picked up with the letter "i" (the ninth letter in the alphabet indicating a block of 10,000 guns) therefore a Luger in this series would be numbered "xxxx i" (or production number 9x,xxx). So your gun's serial number 7305k is effectively 117,305. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-23-2008, 11:15 PM	#6
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ron, I think you forgot they skipped the "j" suffix... so 107,305 would be correct. Barry, The alphabetized system started at 2000i which is equal to 92000. According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers your gun was made in 1922. It's classified as an Alphabet DWM... formerly known as a 1920 Commercial. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

03-24-2008, 01:16 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Thank you Mike! I forget lots of things. One of the advantages of advancing years. When I don't stick to Imperial stuff, I wander off into uncharted waters. I appreciate a more authoritative answer, as I am sure Barry does also. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-23-2008, 05:58 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It started its life as a Weimar Alphabet, so we see C/N on receiver and toggle link, blank chamber, "GERMANY" on the frame, and s/n 7305k. The barrel was replaced using aftermarket 6" barrel product by someone, so no proof, no witness mark. The 55 on the back of the bolt for Weimar Alphabet is normal. It's not partial s/n. I guess it's a batch number or assembly number. Would you post a picture of this number showing its position and shape? It's reconditioned non-professionally. Not a problem as long as the condition is reflected in the acquiring price. Everyone needs a few shooters. Considering 7,65 ammo's price ($40+ per box in local stores!!), a shooter must be 9m/m. So it's good.

03-23-2008, 07:59 PM	#3
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Thanks Alvin, I don't quite understand - what exactly is a 'Weimar Alphabet'? Are you saying the commercial lugers used the alphabetic characters as part of their serial number? I was thinking that only the military models would be numbered with the alphabetic characters in the serial number. That's kinda why I didn't understand why a C/N proofed model would have alphabetic characters in the serial number. Yeah, I know I'm kind of thick. Here's an image of the back of the bolt. Barry http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bolt1.jpg

03-24-2008, 04:57 PM	#8
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	My thanks to all you good folks that answered my inquiries. I really do appreciate your time. As you can probably determine, I'm fairly new to the Luger genre. I have been collecting some of the Mausers, the C-96s and some of their pocket pistols. I also delve into some of the other collectibles, like Sauer and Walther. I have often wanted to collect the luger but have found them to be rather expensive. I've managed to acquire a few of the lugers, but mostly mixed no. guns. I do enjoy shooting them though and found that the longer 6" barrel seems to have more of a barrel lift than the 4" barrel ones do. Anyway, I appreciate your help and will continue to monitor some of the other posts to possible learn more. Thanks again, barry