Original Remington Peter's 30 Cal Ammo

ptrickamp222 · 11-14-2010, 04:35 PM

I have not fired my 30 Cal luger yet. So I took apart an original Remington Kleanbore round from a box that was given when I purchased the pistol (Looks like 60's Ammo ). I did this to see if the pistol will fire. Took out the bullet with puller and powder. Inserted case with live primer and BANG!!!!!!!! Now I know I will not be wasting money buying all the parts and reloading supplies. My question is that the powder that came out looks like shot shell powder. Looks like the Clays I use for my 45 Auto for target and plate loads. I am wondering if it is SR4756 as it looks like shot shell powder......??????? The bullet is 93gr jacketed round nose at .3085.......................OAL is average
1.143

FNorm · 11-14-2010, 06:57 PM

Ya can't tell by looking...

FN

ptrickamp222 · 11-14-2010, 10:31 PM

I am aware of that. Was just curious if anyone here might have had an idea of what was used in that ammo from back then. Have not shot any so do not know if it shots good and cycles the pistol correctly or groups good. But I imagine that it does. Remington used to be quality ammo. I imagine that it still is, just curious that shot shell powder came out. I use shot shell powder Clays for 45 Auto light loads and shoots great groups and very clean, with soft recoil.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-14-2010, 11:31 PM

I have used Red Dot shotgun powder in my pistol loads of all kinds for years.

Jerry Burney

Sieger · 11-15-2010, 01:53 AM

Hi:

If you are reloading, use an OAL of 1.173 and you will be able to shoot all eight without jamming.

SR 4756 should be perfect in your pistol. Start at about 5.0 grains and work up 1/10th of a grain at a time until you get perfect function and excellent accuracy.

Good shooting!!

Sieger

ptrickamp222 · 11-16-2010, 12:39 AM

The Lyman 48th shows 1.173 but the Remington Ammo was 1.143!!!!! What do you think for a DWM 1925 30 Cal. I put 8 of the Remington in the Mec Gar Mag and it cycled pretty good by hand. Should do alot better when fired. The 1.143 is for jacketed. Do you recommend 1.173 for LRN?????

Sieger · 11-16-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptrickamp222

The Lyman 48th shows 1.173 but the Remington Ammo was 1.143!!!!! What do you think for a DWM 1925 30 Cal. I put 8 of the Remington in the Mec Gar Mag and it cycled pretty good by hand. Should do alot better when fired. The 1.143 is for jacketed. Do you recommend 1.173 for LRN?????

Hi:

1.173 should be the correct starting place for any round nose bullet, though slight adjustments may be necessary given unique specific bullet designs.

Again, the problem occurs during the shooting process, as shorter cartridges cant forward when they are stacked eight high in that highly slanted Parabellum magazine.

Also, many of our members have used .311 or even .312 lead bullets in their 7.65 Parabellum ammo without difficulity.

As stated earlier, the original DWM cartridges I've examined had .307 bullets loaded in them. Why the Germans loaded bullets smaller than groove size is still an open question, as they did the same thing with the 9mm.

Sieger

ptrickamp222 · 11-16-2010, 08:58 PM

Maybe that's one of the reasons they LOST The WAR!!!!!!!

Alot of the country's that we fought used a thousand or 2 larger as to use our ammo and we could not use theirs.........not to stupid after all except that they woke a sleeping giant

MFC · 11-16-2010, 09:39 PM

Seiger and Patrick,
I'm not a reloader, so this may seem like a stupid question. The original rounds that measure .307, which is fired through a bore that measures .309, makes sense to me. As the bullet is forced into the rifling of the barrel, the metal that is displaced by the lands is forced into the grooves, forming a tight fit. If the bullet starts out the same or larger than the bore, the displaced metal can only make the bullet longer. Is this what is happening, or am I totaly off base? I really don't know, but it seemed odd to me to load a bullet larger than the bore. It obviously works, but wouldn't it also increase chamber pressure?

ptrickamp222 · 11-16-2010, 09:58 PM

Shooting hard lead cast should be .001 over for accuracy and not leading the bore. Jacketed should be the same as the bore. As far as I know and have been doing that for years with 45 and 9mm in hard lead cast, some even .002 over. Also thru custom barrels and very accurate with the right load of powder and bullet. I am sure the others will chime in.........

Norme · 11-16-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptrickamp222

Maybe that's one of the reasons they LOST The WAR!!!!!!!

Hi Patrick, According to the WWI Luger manual, 9mm ammo, as issued, would pierce a French steel helmet at 800 meters! Artillery Lugers even have sights adjustable to that distance. Whatever the reasons the Germans lost the war, you can be sure that weak ammo was not one of them. Regards, Norm

Sieger · 11-17-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

Seiger and Patrick,
I'm not a reloader, so this may seem like a stupid question. The original rounds that measure .307, which is fired through a bore that measures .309, makes sense to me. As the bullet is forced into the rifling of the barrel, the metal that is displaced by the lands is forced into the grooves, forming a tight fit. If the bullet starts out the same or larger than the bore, the displaced metal can only make the bullet longer. Is this what is happening, or am I totaly off base? I really don't know, but it seemed odd to me to load a bullet larger than the bore. It obviously works, but wouldn't it also increase chamber pressure?

Hi:

Actually, the metal displaced by the rifling moves toward the rear of the bullet and ends up in the casing, for a split second, before it is blown into the bore following the bullet out the end of the barrel. If you have a high-power rifle, examine a casing, after it is fired, and you will note, on the inside of the neck, a mirror image of the rifling pattern of your rifle. This is caused by the displaced material moving along the inside of the neck until the bullet exits the casing. The first time you see this you ask yourself how the inside of the neck ended up with the rifling pattern on it.

For accuracy, with FMJ ammo, bullet diameter should equal groove diameter; for lead bullets, 0.01 to 0.02 larger than groove is the old rule of thumb.

The goal is to "seal" the bullet to the grooves, to avoid "blow by" gas that can actually cut into the rifling over time and accelerate barrel ware.

Sieger

Sieger · 11-17-2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptrickamp222

Maybe that's one of the reasons they LOST The WAR!!!!!!!

Alot of the country's that we fought used a thousand or 2 larger as to use our ammo and we could not use theirs.........not to stupid after all except that they woke a sleeping giant

Pat:

Are you sitting down, are there any sharp objects around you, do you have a tongue compressor to help you from swallowing your tongue? O.K. then.... here we go.

The original DWM blueprints, for the 9mm barrel, call for a groove diameter of 9.1mm or .358 inches. Many European companies, including FN, maintain/maintained this original diameter for their 9mm pistol barrels.

Now, can you tell me why they loaded .354 to .355 bullets in their ammo, as there had to be an excellent reason for this practice?

Sieger

ptrickamp222 · 11-17-2010, 10:24 PM

I was just adding a little humor to the subject. I own a few German pistol's and one is a FN from WWII with the WWII Nazi Marks on it. When they took over the Factory. I did not mean to get under anyone's skin. Next time I will know that this is a very serious forum and humor is a NO, NO.

And by the way the German's made excellent fireams as well as other excellent items..............or I would not own them! And I will try and get some tongue suppressor's. I am not a German firearms expert. I load my 9mm to .356 for hard lead cast. Since you asked the question of under sized bullets please let us know why?????

MFC · 11-18-2010, 12:01 AM

Sieger,
Thank you for the explanation. Very interesting.

ptrickamp222 · 12-11-2010, 01:23 AM

Didn't the Orientals have a 51 Cal machine gun that could shoot our ammo.........Just happen to see it on the Hisory channel last nite on snipers of the actual sniper recalling the impossible shots made. Vietnam era and Iraq. Great show and what a group of great snipers and old Vets recreatiing their shots. Trying not to offend anyone just saying that some military firearms could shoot our ammo and we could not shoot theirs. Maybe not the Germans but there were else where. Just my 2 cents and that's what it's worth.......

11-14-2010, 04:35 PM	#1
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Original Remington Peter's 30 Cal Ammo I have not fired my 30 Cal luger yet. So I took apart an original Remington Kleanbore round from a box that was given when I purchased the pistol (Looks like 60's Ammo ). I did this to see if the pistol will fire. Took out the bullet with puller and powder. Inserted case with live primer and BANG!!!!!!!! Now I know I will not be wasting money buying all the parts and reloading supplies. My question is that the powder that came out looks like shot shell powder. Looks like the Clays I use for my 45 Auto for target and plate loads. I am wondering if it is SR4756 as it looks like shot shell powder......??????? The bullet is 93gr jacketed round nose at .3085.......................OAL is average 1.143

11-14-2010, 10:31 PM	#3
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Remington Powder I am aware of that. Was just curious if anyone here might have had an idea of what was used in that ammo from back then. Have not shot any so do not know if it shots good and cycles the pistol correctly or groups good. But I imagine that it does. Remington used to be quality ammo. I imagine that it still is, just curious that shot shell powder came out. I use shot shell powder Clays for 45 Auto light loads and shoots great groups and very clean, with soft recoil.

11-14-2010, 11:31 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,104 Times in 1,429 Posts	I have used Red Dot shotgun powder in my pistol loads of all kinds for years. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-16-2010, 12:39 AM	#6
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Oal The Lyman 48th shows 1.173 but the Remington Ammo was 1.143!!!!! What do you think for a DWM 1925 30 Cal. I put 8 of the Remington in the Mec Gar Mag and it cycled pretty good by hand. Should do alot better when fired. The 1.143 is for jacketed. Do you recommend 1.173 for LRN?????

11-16-2010, 08:58 PM	#8
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Smaller bullets than bore size Maybe that's one of the reasons they LOST The WAR!!!!!!! Alot of the country's that we fought used a thousand or 2 larger as to use our ammo and we could not use theirs.........not to stupid after all except that they woke a sleeping giant

11-14-2010, 06:57 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Ya can't tell by looking... FN

11-15-2010, 01:53 AM	#5
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi: If you are reloading, use an OAL of 1.173 and you will be able to shoot all eight without jamming. SR 4756 should be perfect in your pistol. Start at about 5.0 grains and work up 1/10th of a grain at a time until you get perfect function and excellent accuracy. Good shooting!! Sieger

11-16-2010, 09:39 PM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Seiger and Patrick, I'm not a reloader, so this may seem like a stupid question. The original rounds that measure .307, which is fired through a bore that measures .309, makes sense to me. As the bullet is forced into the rifling of the barrel, the metal that is displaced by the lands is forced into the grooves, forming a tight fit. If the bullet starts out the same or larger than the bore, the displaced metal can only make the bullet longer. Is this what is happening, or am I totaly off base? I really don't know, but it seemed odd to me to load a bullet larger than the bore. It obviously works, but wouldn't it also increase chamber pressure? __________________ Mike C. Last edited by MFC; 11-16-2010 at 11:18 PM.

11-16-2010, 09:58 PM	#10
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	bore diameter Shooting hard lead cast should be .001 over for accuracy and not leading the bore. Jacketed should be the same as the bore. As far as I know and have been doing that for years with 45 and 9mm in hard lead cast, some even .002 over. Also thru custom barrels and very accurate with the right load of powder and bullet. I am sure the others will chime in.........

11-17-2010, 10:24 PM	#14
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Luger 30 Cal I was just adding a little humor to the subject. I own a few German pistol's and one is a FN from WWII with the WWII Nazi Marks on it. When they took over the Factory. I did not mean to get under anyone's skin. Next time I will know that this is a very serious forum and humor is a NO, NO. And by the way the German's made excellent fireams as well as other excellent items..............or I would not own them! And I will try and get some tongue suppressor's. I am not a German firearms expert. I load my 9mm to .356 for hard lead cast. Since you asked the question of under sized bullets please let us know why????? Last edited by ptrickamp222; 11-17-2010 at 11:23 PM.

11-18-2010, 12:01 AM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Sieger, Thank you for the explanation. Very interesting. __________________ Mike C.

12-11-2010, 01:23 AM	#16
ptrickamp222 User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 60 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just for Fun Didn't the Orientals have a 51 Cal machine gun that could shoot our ammo.........Just happen to see it on the Hisory channel last nite on snipers of the actual sniper recalling the impossible shots made. Vietnam era and Iraq. Great show and what a group of great snipers and old Vets recreatiing their shots. Trying not to offend anyone just saying that some military firearms could shoot our ammo and we could not shoot theirs. Maybe not the Germans but there were else where. Just my 2 cents and that's what it's worth.......