C96 Stock repair ?

unitedcs · 08-03-2017, 10:57 AM

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone can suggest a way I can remove a broken screw from a C96 stock. It's the long retaining screw that holds the mounting bracket. The screw seems too small to drill and get a good enough bite on to extract. If it wasn't original I'd just drill it out and retap but the stock is orig and in great condition besides that screw. Has anyone ever run into this situation ? I clipped a sarco picture to show the screw I'm talking about.
Thanks Rick

George Anderson · 08-03-2017, 11:26 AM

Take a steel awl and heat it to the white-hot level then apply it to the tip of the screw and hold it there until it begins to cool. The heat will be transferred down the shaft of the screw causing it to swell. As the screw cools it will retract thus breaking the bind. It always works for me.

unitedcs · 08-03-2017, 11:48 AM

That sounds good but the head of the screw is snapped off. Only have access to the thread end, and very little access. I could heat that but then no way to turn it.

DonVoigt · 08-03-2017, 04:36 PM

Does the picture have anything to do with the question?

Other than it is a stock iron with screw?

Is the Iron still in place on the stock, with the screw in place- except head is broken off?

Then only chance is to drill the threaded end with a carbide drill, using a millng machine and remove the just out to the threads, then tap the screw body out the other way.

Clean out the threads or re tap to the original size.

A tricky and delicate procedure, IMO.

sheepherder · 08-03-2017, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Then only chance is to drill the threaded end with a carbide drill, using a millng machine and remove the just out to the threads, then tap the screw body out the other way.

+ 1

unitedcs · 08-03-2017, 05:05 PM

Yes that was just a ref pic. It's still attached. Guess I'm off to the depot for a couple of bits. Thanks for the suggestion.

DonVoigt · 08-03-2017, 07:41 PM

Be sure to start your drilling "dead center" or the result will not be good!

The ends of most of those screws are domed, and thus the bit will "skitter" around, you need a sharp and inflexible bit to get on dead center.

unitedcs · 08-03-2017, 08:26 PM

Thanks Don, I'll let you know how it goes.

gunbugs · 08-03-2017, 09:23 PM

To avoid the bit running around on the domed end of the screw, use a center drill first, as they are made for this type of job, and won't flex at all. Then, once you have a small start in the screw, you can go after it with a standard high speed bit. Just make sure it is NEW, and this is its first cut. Take short cuts, with a drop of oil, and blow out the hole frequently. Go slow, no need to hurry the job.

Olle · 08-04-2017, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

To avoid the bit running around on the domed end of the screw, use a center drill first, as they are made for this type of job, and won't flex at all. Then, once you have a small start in the screw, you can go after it with a standard high speed bit. Just make sure it is NEW, and this is its first cut. Take short cuts, with a drop of oil, and blow out the hole frequently. Go slow, no need to hurry the job.

Or you can use a Dremel and a small diamond burr to make a divot. This gives you a second chance to get it on center, as you can simply grind it the direction needed to get it dead on.

sheepherder · 08-04-2017, 01:18 PM

Even with a center drill, it will be difficult to get the initial divot/hole centered. This is due to the thread and hole exhibiting an 'off-center' appearance. Looking at it as it is installed, the thread shows the apex on one side of the hole/screw and the root on the opposite side.

If the screw is 'finished' flush with the stock iron then there won't be any dome.

A tricky issue even for an experienced machinist.

I'd give it to Gerry Tomek!

alvin · 08-04-2017, 02:13 PM

The trouble is cost. If don't count cost, drill a bigger hole on iron to take those screw off. Fill the hole by TIG, machining the weld into shape, recreate the hole and screw threads on the iron. Reapply fire blue on it, it will look brand new.

But what's the cost of doing this way.. the result value definitely won't cover that cost. So, no. If this damaged screw was just not pretty, I would say just leave it alone.

gunbugs · 08-05-2017, 01:42 AM

Besides all this,what I usually do in this situation, (not my first rodeo), is chuck up a carbide dental burr in the dremel, spin it as fast as it will go, and "paint" a new slot in the exposed end of the screw, then just use a flat bladed screwdriver to spin it out. Usually by doing this, it releases any existing crush, or tension on the threads, and the screw spins right out. I get broken scope mount screws in the shop pretty regularly. I'm sure this is bigger than the 6x48 mount screws I usually deal with, and therefore, probably easier to take care of. But, as I tell my customers, "minor miracles on a daily basis".

Ron Wood · 08-05-2017, 12:30 PM

I think I would soak it in oil for a while, dry it off, heat it up a bit to help loosen the rust then grab the shaft of the screw with a pair of vise grips and wiggle the screw back and forth until it breaks free then unscrew it. If the vise grips bung up the shaft too much to get it out of the frame, cut the shaft and remove from inside the frame. Nothing like a BFFI (brute force and flipping ignorance) approach to a problem, eh what?

sheepherder · 08-05-2017, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I think I would soak it in oil for a while, dry it off, heat it up a bit to help loosen the rust then grab the shaft of the screw with a pair of vise grips and wiggle the screw back and forth until it breaks free then unscrew it. If the vise grips bung up the shaft too much to get it out of the frame, cut the shaft and remove from inside the frame. Nothing like a BFFI (brute force and flipping ignorance) approach to a problem, eh what?

Unless the head was broken off while trying to remove it, and the shaft is still inside the wooden stock...

unitedcs · 08-05-2017, 02:34 PM

Reluctant to drill it out and lose my threads. The head of the screw is missing, just a hole. If it was an aftermarket stock I wouldn't hesitate

Ron Wood · 08-05-2017, 02:41 PM

Sorry, I misunderstood...stupid mistake, I should have known it was still on the stock. Drilling is probably the only option and an experienced machinist/gunsmith is a good recommendation.

unitedcs · 08-05-2017, 02:48 PM

No worries, it's a learning experience. And can't think of a better excuse to pop for a better drill press.

Tomathvl · 08-05-2017, 03:41 PM

Looks like some of the screw is sticking out of the hole. How about soaking with kroil and them grind a screw driver slot with a steady hand and Dremel and smack it sharply to loosen and try to screw out.

alvin · 08-05-2017, 05:13 PM

This is not the original screw there. Looks the tip is hex shaped, installed by a special tool. But this must be there for a long time and match this stock's overall condition. A new replacement screw won't make it prettier for sure. Downgrading for fun, I guess?

08-03-2017, 10:57 AM	#1
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	C96 Stock repair ? Hello all, I was wondering if anyone can suggest a way I can remove a broken screw from a C96 stock. It's the long retaining screw that holds the mounting bracket. The screw seems too small to drill and get a good enough bite on to extract. If it wasn't original I'd just drill it out and retap but the stock is orig and in great condition besides that screw. Has anyone ever run into this situation ? I clipped a sarco picture to show the screw I'm talking about. Thanks Rick Attached Images

08-03-2017, 04:36 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,678 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Does the picture have anything to do with the question? Other than it is a stock iron with screw? Is the Iron still in place on the stock, with the screw in place- except head is broken off? Then only chance is to drill the threaded end with a carbide drill, using a millng machine and remove the just out to the threads, then tap the screw body out the other way. Clean out the threads or re tap to the original size. A tricky and delicate procedure, IMO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-03-2017, 07:41 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,678 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Be sure to start your drilling "dead center" or the result will not be good! The ends of most of those screws are domed, and thus the bit will "skitter" around, you need a sharp and inflexible bit to get on dead center. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-04-2017, 01:18 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Even with a center drill, it will be difficult to get the initial divot/hole centered. This is due to the thread and hole exhibiting an 'off-center' appearance. Looking at it as it is installed, the thread shows the apex on one side of the hole/screw and the root on the opposite side. If the screw is 'finished' flush with the stock iron then there won't be any dome. A tricky issue even for an experienced machinist. I'd give it to Gerry Tomek! __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-05-2017, 12:30 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I think I would soak it in oil for a while, dry it off, heat it up a bit to help loosen the rust then grab the shaft of the screw with a pair of vise grips and wiggle the screw back and forth until it breaks free then unscrew it. If the vise grips bung up the shaft too much to get it out of the frame, cut the shaft and remove from inside the frame. Nothing like a BFFI (brute force and flipping ignorance) approach to a problem, eh what? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-03-2017, 11:26 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Take a steel awl and heat it to the white-hot level then apply it to the tip of the screw and hold it there until it begins to cool. The heat will be transferred down the shaft of the screw causing it to swell. As the screw cools it will retract thus breaking the bind. It always works for me.

08-03-2017, 11:48 AM	#3
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	That sounds good but the head of the screw is snapped off. Only have access to the thread end, and very little access. I could heat that but then no way to turn it.

08-03-2017, 05:05 PM	#6
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Yes that was just a ref pic. It's still attached. Guess I'm off to the depot for a couple of bits. Thanks for the suggestion.

08-03-2017, 08:26 PM	#8
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Thanks Don, I'll let you know how it goes.

08-03-2017, 09:23 PM	#9
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 637 Thanks: 338 Thanked 1,143 Times in 380 Posts	To avoid the bit running around on the domed end of the screw, use a center drill first, as they are made for this type of job, and won't flex at all. Then, once you have a small start in the screw, you can go after it with a standard high speed bit. Just make sure it is NEW, and this is its first cut. Take short cuts, with a drop of oil, and blow out the hole frequently. Go slow, no need to hurry the job.

08-04-2017, 02:13 PM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The trouble is cost. If don't count cost, drill a bigger hole on iron to take those screw off. Fill the hole by TIG, machining the weld into shape, recreate the hole and screw threads on the iron. Reapply fire blue on it, it will look brand new. But what's the cost of doing this way.. the result value definitely won't cover that cost. So, no. If this damaged screw was just not pretty, I would say just leave it alone.

08-05-2017, 01:42 AM	#13
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 637 Thanks: 338 Thanked 1,143 Times in 380 Posts	Besides all this,what I usually do in this situation, (not my first rodeo), is chuck up a carbide dental burr in the dremel, spin it as fast as it will go, and "paint" a new slot in the exposed end of the screw, then just use a flat bladed screwdriver to spin it out. Usually by doing this, it releases any existing crush, or tension on the threads, and the screw spins right out. I get broken scope mount screws in the shop pretty regularly. I'm sure this is bigger than the 6x48 mount screws I usually deal with, and therefore, probably easier to take care of. But, as I tell my customers, "minor miracles on a daily basis".

08-05-2017, 02:34 PM	#16
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	delimma Reluctant to drill it out and lose my threads. The head of the screw is missing, just a hole. If it was an aftermarket stock I wouldn't hesitate Attached Thumbnails

08-05-2017, 02:41 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Sorry, I misunderstood...stupid mistake, I should have known it was still on the stock. Drilling is probably the only option and an experienced machinist/gunsmith is a good recommendation. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-05-2017, 02:48 PM	#18
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	No worries, it's a learning experience. And can't think of a better excuse to pop for a better drill press.

08-05-2017, 03:41 PM	#19
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	screw slot Looks like some of the screw is sticking out of the hole. How about soaking with kroil and them grind a screw driver slot with a steady hand and Dremel and smack it sharply to loosen and try to screw out.

08-05-2017, 05:13 PM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	This is not the original screw there. Looks the tip is hex shaped, installed by a special tool. But this must be there for a long time and match this stock's overall condition. A new replacement screw won't make it prettier for sure. Downgrading for fun, I guess?