Luger Magazine numbering

[Puretexan]

I can't see why they would have numbered magazines. If any of them fit any pistol, why would they have wasted resources, to make the magazine number match the pistol.
I can see a German soldier running around his barracks asking who has 2917 magazine, because at the range somebody swapped it for this 3418? Surely in the building process nobody though eventually a person would want the magazine that was originally assigned to this pistol.

[mrerick]

I expect that the numbering of parts related to the hand fit nature of Lugers.

The inspection process wasn't there just to leave the little marks that we like to keep track of. The markings (both factory worker marks, and government inspection marks) are a record of approval that includes trace-ability back to the workers.

When the overall pistol was inspected and approved, it was done as a complete functional unit. If the pistol somehow failed after the military took delivery, the numbered and fitted parts could all be traced back for either process analysis or individual responsibility reporting.

This makes me wonder if there was some level of hand fitting for magazines, especially the wood ones. We certainly find them sensitive for hold open operation and feed operation. While I doubt it, they were numbered from the beginning. The numbering traces them back to testing of the whole functioning pistol during final evaluation before leaving the factory.

Eventually, with the milled steel magazines, this numbering was finally dropped in 1941. By then, resources were more limited, and the precision of the magazine probably eliminated any fitting variance.

The German manufacturers were always pragmatic. They didn't waste anything, including labor. The Swiss were likewise obsessive about precision. Their magazines are not numbered.

I can imagine some obsessive Prussian officers that treated their matching magazines as part of their crisp and perfect uniforms.

The everyday soldiers were unlikely to care much as long as the magazines worked properly. Much of the swapping had to take place at unit level cleaning parties where things just got mixed up if keeping track of them didn't matter...

[Puretexan]

Yep I can imagine a commandant ,during inspection checking the magazine serial numbers to your pistol. If they didn't match they would make you run around the track for an hour or something as punishment.

Paul

[Wastoute]

At Ft Benning it was called "pushing Georgia".

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Puretexan

I can't see why they would have numbered magazines. If any of them fit any pistol, why would they have wasted resources, to make the magazine number match the pistol.

Accounting. All through the process of manufacture to billing and shipping. Then receipt at a unit and issue to an individual. Acconting.

[Puretexan]

Yeah about every two months they wanted to see the hat you never wore , and the
stick you never carried. Seemed silly.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by mrerick

The everyday soldiers were unlikely to care much if the magazines worked properly.

I think just the opposite - The user cared very much if the pistol worked properly. I do.

Much of the swapping had to take place at unit level cleaning parties where things just got mixed up if keeping track of them didn't matter...

My guess would be in the storage facility. The magazine was likely not stored in the pistol but nearby. Then would be issued with the pistol for duty. But as long as you got a magazine/two magazines with the issue, no one would much care. But the number would be in a record (even if it was different from the pistol number) so that if the count was off (and the Germans loved to count things) then the individual that was last issued the missing magazine could be...questioned...

I've carried an M1911 and an M9. Neither had numbered magazines. We just kept count of how many you had. They were also considered 'expendable' items IIRC.

[DonVoigt]

Just a couple points, in regard to a couple statements made above-

1- All magazines will not fit all pistols and function correctly, some will not even insert completely.

2- There are NO "extruded steel" magazines. The mags often referred to erroneously as "extruded" are from the Haenel design and are folded , welded, and then the outside milled to shape; the feed lips are formed before folding. There is a page or two regarding their construction that completely blows up the "extruded" nonsense with drawings in Goertz and Sturgess.

[Edward Tinker]

I have carried the 1911a1 and the M9 as a duty gun for years.
After going to the range, the magazines that worked flawlessly IN MY PISTOL ended up in my magazine pouch...

[Puretexan]

Well I'm glad all my magazines fit all my pistols. I only have one that the number matches the pistol. So serial numbers don't make much difference, if at some point
in time, someone grabbed one and stuck it in my pistol and it works.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Just a couple points, in regard to a couple statements made above-

1- All magazines will not fit all pistols and function correctly, some will not even insert completely.

Yes. As an aside, the Erma KGP 69 (.22 lr) toggle pistols display this foible as well. It turns out that, even though they are cast, the grip frames can vary in their dimensions in their mag wells. There is also significant variation in the external dimensions of the mags themselves, regardless that they are well-made otherwise. Some mags will bind or refuse entirely to fit when inserted, and come can combine to create enough play so that they rattle when in place. I had to go through my collection and match them up with the pistols they fit, in large, medium, and small gradient. This was OK until my last two times I acquired them, which gave me three mags that won't fit into any gun I have. To remedy this, I'll have my machinist hog out the well of a build project pistol, once I determine how much to have removed.

2- There are NO "extruded steel" magazines. The mags often referred to erroneously as "extruded" are from the Haenel design and are folded , welded, and then the outside milled to shape; the feed lips are formed before folding. There is a page or two regarding their construction that completely blows up the "extruded" nonsense with drawings in Goertz and Sturgess.

Yes, we've been through this all, rather recently. Unfortunately, misnomers like this tend to persist (e.g., "Black Widow," "1920 Commercial," etc.)

[Puretexan]

Well I bet that makes Mec-gar mad when they sell a magazine and someone ships it back because it won't fit their pistol.

[gunbugs]

I think most of the magazine mixups we see today, came from US GI's picking up war trophies from a pile of pistols and the accompanying pile of magazines, and not caring, or even knowing that there were "numbers matching" magazines. I would think that most of the Krauts kept their mags with their pistol.

[LU1900]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

I think most of the magazine mixups we see today, came from US GI's picking up war trophies from a pile of pistols and the accompanying pile of magazines, and not caring, or even knowing that there were "numbers matching" magazines. I would think that most of the Krauts kept their mags with their pistol.

Well , here in France , 95% luger don't have the original magazine , very rare to find all matching !

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Puretexan

Well I bet that makes Mec-gar mad when they sell a magazine and someone ships it back because it won't fit their pistol.

I've had a couple Mec-gars that were "tight", I found the high spot and hit them with a hammer.
Problem solved.

Often it is a too long grip screw that keeps a mag from "fitting".

Yea, a non matching mag that works is good- it only affects the selling price ; like a matching mag increases the "asking" price.

[Dwight Gruber]

In my experience Mec-Gar magazines are all manufactured slightly on the small side. Pressing on the magazine release allows them to fall freely from the pistol, something which almost never happens with original magazines.

--Dwight

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by LU1900

Well , here in France , 95% luger don't have the original magazine , very rare to find all matching !

Lot's of things happened after the weapons were surrenderd.

[Puretexan]

The bad part is when you see a matching magazine, you immediately suspect they ground off that aluminum bottom and restamped it.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Puretexan

The bad part is when you see a matching magazine, you immediately suspect they ground off that aluminum bottom and restamped it.

Just look at the base, you can tell if it is re-done or not.

[mrerick]

I reworded the item Rich pointed out to clarify my intent, which is in alignment with his.

Don is, of course, right about "Extruded" magazines not existing. I know full well that htey are precision welded and machined, and wrote the FAQ writetup about it. I literally fell into the trap of using the traditional "jargon" for these Haenel magazines. I corrected this too...

As you age, so do your memories... and the access mechanism.

There are some fine points to detecting if a magazine has been renumbered. Some of the manipulators are pretty good at concealing it. A practiced eye can usually detect it.