Number Identification

Geladen · 08-20-2025, 10:14 PM

Hello All,

I have come across a BYF 41 Luger I am interested in purchasing. However, it has a number crudely engraved/electropenciled on the side, to the right of the trigger plate. The gun is claimed to be a bring back and has paperwork. I haven't been able to find anything that ties the engraved/electropenciled number to German, American, or Russian troops or units from WW2, or any other WWII era number I could think of.

I have attached two pictures.

Does anybody know the significance of this number, or any information on what it might possibly be?

Thanks,
Joe

sdmark777 · 08-20-2025, 10:26 PM

Looks like someone engraved their Illinois Drivers License Number on it in case it was stolen. Was a thing to do back in the day. Police used to tell people to engrave their Dirvers License number on tools, TV's and everything so it would be easier to find the owner when recovered. Unfortunately, a lot of people did it to their firearms as well.

gunnertwo · 08-21-2025, 01:39 AM

I was working in LE during the time of the "Owner applied number". I was the contrarian, saying if it has a serial number- write it down. Do not deface guns. Years ago I had Colt Ace number 6XX, some idiot put his drivers license number on the frame. Ruined a great gun!

G2

velodog455~ · 08-21-2025, 09:57 AM

I've also owned a couple of guns with social security numbers electropenciled on the frame
-Bob

Mac Cat · 08-21-2025, 11:22 AM

Same.
In the 1970s, Texas police departments were advising gun owners to put their driver's license number or even their SSN on their guns, in case they were stolen. It was always a dumb idea, but a lot of people did it.

Just FYI - at one time, Georgia "allowed" people to use their SSN for their driver's license number.
Another ill advised idea.

Also, that electro-pen was nearly impossible to control - horrible instrument.

Geladen · 08-21-2025, 01:09 PM

Thanks for the input. It indeed looks to be an Illinois driver license number. I have confirmed the solider that brought the gun back, Avery A. Leuty, was part of the 141st Infantry Medical Detachment, in the 36th Infantry Division, and did indeed live in Salem, Illinois. All documented.

Given all this, in your opinion, how would this affect the value of the gun? The total package is the gun with one FXO black bottom magazine, the holster, and the bringback certificate.

I would like to add that I have no intention of selling the gun. I just don't want to overpay.

Thanks,
Joe

sdmark777 · 08-21-2025, 03:51 PM

To me, the electric pencil engraving on this Luger drops it to the value of a shooter level Luger. The Bring Back Paper is nice, but does not over ride the defacement. On the positive side, the black bottom FXO magazine and holster could have good value on their own. But holster depends on if it is an original, condition and what Luger holster it is exactly. You can post the asking price and folks can give their opinion. But with out more details and photos it is difficult to value.

Geladen · 08-21-2025, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdmark777

To me, the electric pencil engraving on this Luger drops it to the value of a shooter level Luger. The Bring Back Paper is nice, but does not over ride the defacement. On the positive side, the black bottom FXO magazine and holster could have good value on their own. But holster depends on if it is an original, condition and what Luger holster it is exactly. You can post the asking price and folks can give their opinion. But with out more details and photos it is difficult to value.

That's about what my line of thinking is. I have a nice all original BYF 41 already. If I can get this one for a good price, it would be worth it to have as a shooter. I figured the magazine and holster would be valued around $550-$600 market price. Beside the engraving, the gun is in great condition, original and matching numbers. Black bakelite grips. What do you think a BYF 41 shooter would be valued around these days?

I've attached the only picture I have of the holster. It appears legitimate, but can't say for sure from the one picture.

Thanks,
Joe

sdmark777 · 08-21-2025, 05:32 PM

If you were to buy it as a shooter then check if the grips are original. If they are I would remove them as well as the Black bottom FXO mag. Get some Megar Mags and repro or any other grips for shooting. So called original good condition "Black Widow" grips sell for a lot on their own. It all comes down to the sellers pricing. If priced high as a collectible bring back, then pass. But if shooter priced and holster, mag and grips are good originals you might have a good deal! I will let others advise a good price for a shooter these days. Best of luck.

Geladen · 08-21-2025, 05:35 PM

Thank you. We'll see what happens. It's too bad such a nice gun and overall package was damaged in such a way. Oh well though, just going to try to make the best of it if I can get my hands on it.

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08-20-2025, 10:26 PM	#2
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 301 Thanks: 721 Thanked 705 Times in 186 Posts	Looks like someone engraved their Illinois Drivers License Number on it in case it was stolen. Was a thing to do back in the day. Police used to tell people to engrave their Dirvers License number on tools, TV's and everything so it would be easier to find the owner when recovered. Unfortunately, a lot of people did it to their firearms as well.

08-21-2025, 01:39 AM	#3
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 642 Thanks: 854 Thanked 957 Times in 373 Posts	I was working in LE during the time of the "Owner applied number". I was the contrarian, saying if it has a serial number- write it down. Do not deface guns. Years ago I had Colt Ace number 6XX, some idiot put his drivers license number on the frame. Ruined a great gun! G2

08-21-2025, 09:57 AM	#4
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 100 Thanks: 28 Thanked 89 Times in 52 Posts	I've also owned a couple of guns with social security numbers electropenciled on the frame -Bob

08-21-2025, 11:22 AM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 769 Thanks: 2,188 Thanked 656 Times in 350 Posts	Same. In the 1970s, Texas police departments were advising gun owners to put their driver's license number or even their SSN on their guns, in case they were stolen. It was always a dumb idea, but a lot of people did it. Just FYI - at one time, Georgia "allowed" people to use their SSN for their driver's license number. Another ill advised idea. Also, that electro-pen was nearly impossible to control - horrible instrument.

08-21-2025, 01:09 PM	#6
Geladen User Join Date: Jan 2024 Location: Central Florida Posts: 15 Thanks: 21 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Thanks for the input. It indeed looks to be an Illinois driver license number. I have confirmed the solider that brought the gun back, Avery A. Leuty, was part of the 141st Infantry Medical Detachment, in the 36th Infantry Division, and did indeed live in Salem, Illinois. All documented. Given all this, in your opinion, how would this affect the value of the gun? The total package is the gun with one FXO black bottom magazine, the holster, and the bringback certificate. I would like to add that I have no intention of selling the gun. I just don't want to overpay. Thanks, Joe

08-21-2025, 03:51 PM	#7
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 301 Thanks: 721 Thanked 705 Times in 186 Posts	To me, the electric pencil engraving on this Luger drops it to the value of a shooter level Luger. The Bring Back Paper is nice, but does not over ride the defacement. On the positive side, the black bottom FXO magazine and holster could have good value on their own. But holster depends on if it is an original, condition and what Luger holster it is exactly. You can post the asking price and folks can give their opinion. But with out more details and photos it is difficult to value.

08-21-2025, 05:32 PM	#9
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 301 Thanks: 721 Thanked 705 Times in 186 Posts	If you were to buy it as a shooter then check if the grips are original. If they are I would remove them as well as the Black bottom FXO mag. Get some Megar Mags and repro or any other grips for shooting. So called original good condition "Black Widow" grips sell for a lot on their own. It all comes down to the sellers pricing. If priced high as a collectible bring back, then pass. But if shooter priced and holster, mag and grips are good originals you might have a good deal! I will let others advise a good price for a shooter these days. Best of luck.

08-21-2025, 05:35 PM	#10
Geladen User Join Date: Jan 2024 Location: Central Florida Posts: 15 Thanks: 21 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Thank you. We'll see what happens. It's too bad such a nice gun and overall package was damaged in such a way. Oh well though, just going to try to make the best of it if I can get my hands on it.