Newbie with question

JHen · 04-10-2003, 11:49 AM

I've recently purchased a S/42 1938 Luger with what appears to be matching serial numbers on the pistol AND 2 magazines. The pistol was purchased at a local gun show, and looks to have been recently re-blued and with the extractors number etched in. While I bought the gun to be used strictly as a shooter, there seems to be evidence that this gun has been "doctored". Sorry, but I have no photos to post. Any feedback would certainly be appreciated.

Edward Tinker · 04-10-2003, 12:32 PM

Can you tell us any markings on the gun?

Proofs? (see on your left under tech information if you came through www.lugerforum.com) Tell us what and where proofs and markings are located.

There are forms in this section, where you can print out and then write down pertinent information.

What serial number is on the gun? To include any letters next to or under the serial number?

What year or letters are stamped on the top of the receiver?

What initials or letters are on the toggle?

Can you provide pictures, to include side, top, etc? This could be digital or even use a scanner.

MANY, many guns have been cold blued, reblued or fixed up, sometimes to decieve, many times to make it look better.

Ed

John Sabato · 04-10-2003, 01:19 PM

This sounds like an Eastern Bloc rework to me just from the description...

As Ed Tinker asked, what is the serial number and are there any numbers stamped on the INSIDE of the sideplate?

What kind of grips does it have?

Checkered wood?

Checkered plastic or bakelite with small bullseyes on each side?

Is there an "X" symbol anywhere on the gun?

JHen · 04-12-2003, 09:36 AM

To Ed Tinker and John Sabato,

My thanks to you both for your prompt replies. As stated in my post, I bought the gun as a shooter but was curious because of the matching serial numbers. The seller NEVER indicated that it was all original, so I bought it with "let the buyer beware" in mind and strictly as a SHOOTER. (which by the way, is very good). I'll try to address both of your questions in the order that you presented them and try to get pics later. (I have to figure out how to do this. I do have a digital camera)

Ed Tinker:
1) Serial Number: 25XX (NO other letters or markings)
2) Markings consistent with Mauser on right side
of receiver (eagle 53, eagle 63 and eagle)
3) 1938 stamped on top of receiver
4) 25XX stamped on toggle
5) Crown and N 6XX stamped on underside of barrel near where it enters receiver.

This information came from The Luger Handbook by
Aaron Davis to help with this info.

John Sabato:

1) The gun came with 2 sets of grips. Wooden which was on the gun and brown checkered plastic with Bulls-eye on each side. (The wooden grips look like they're new)
2) There is a curious mark on the front of the receiver just forward of the trigger guard. It looks like either an lower case "c" or "l" connecting to an "x". Hope this is enough of a description.
Again, many thanks to the both of you for your patience with a newbie's questions. The Luger's
mystique lives on.

Edward Tinker · 04-12-2003, 11:58 AM

Gerald, make sure you break it completly down, from my notes, a breakdown of all numbers to be truely matching are:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What parts must be numbered on a Luger?
The following parts should have serial numbers on them:
Frame, full serial number with suffix
Under barrel, full serial number with or without suffix
Left side of the receiver, full serial number without suffix.
All the following parts should have the last two numerals stamped on them:
Firing pin
Extractor
Sear bar
Breechblock
Front toggle link
Rear toggle link
Locking bolt (takedown lever)
Side plate (with a few exceptions through the years, see comments on side plate)
Trigger
Safety lever
Safety bar
Hold-open latch
Grips (inside)
Note, that the rear toggle pin was not serial-numbered until 1932.
There were two "styles" of serial number marking, Commercial style and Military style. In commercial style some of the numbers, notably the side-plate and locking bolt, were stamped underneath in a way which did not affect the surface look of the gun--military serial numbers were stamped on the visible surfaces. If your mismatched parts are stamped highly visibly they likely come from military guns. <hr /></blockquote>The letter under the trigger guard is probably the suffix, which is part of the serial number. I have made a suffix page you can go to at:
http://users.palouse.com/ttinker/SUFFIXES.htm and you can compare your suffix to the one you see.

I would guess this has been reblued by the russians, pictures would help, there is also a tutorial under the help pages that you can usually figure out how to post pictures.

Ed

04-10-2003, 11:49 AM	#1
JHen New User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Darien, Illinois Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie with question I've recently purchased a S/42 1938 Luger with what appears to be matching serial numbers on the pistol AND 2 magazines. The pistol was purchased at a local gun show, and looks to have been recently re-blued and with the extractors number etched in. While I bought the gun to be used strictly as a shooter, there seems to be evidence that this gun has been "doctored". Sorry, but I have no photos to post. Any feedback would certainly be appreciated.

04-10-2003, 12:32 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Can you tell us any markings on the gun? Proofs? (see on your left under tech information if you came through www.lugerforum.com) Tell us what and where proofs and markings are located. There are forms in this section, where you can print out and then write down pertinent information. What serial number is on the gun? To include any letters next to or under the serial number? What year or letters are stamped on the top of the receiver? What initials or letters are on the toggle? Can you provide pictures, to include side, top, etc? This could be digital or even use a scanner. MANY, many guns have been cold blued, reblued or fixed up, sometimes to decieve, many times to make it look better. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-10-2003, 01:19 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	This sounds like an Eastern Bloc rework to me just from the description... As Ed Tinker asked, what is the serial number and are there any numbers stamped on the INSIDE of the sideplate? What kind of grips does it have? Checkered wood? Checkered plastic or bakelite with small bullseyes on each side? Is there an "X" symbol anywhere on the gun? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-12-2003, 11:58 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Gerald, make sure you break it completly down, from my notes, a breakdown of all numbers to be truely matching are: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">What parts must be numbered on a Luger? The following parts should have serial numbers on them: Frame, full serial number with suffix Under barrel, full serial number with or without suffix Left side of the receiver, full serial number without suffix. All the following parts should have the last two numerals stamped on them: Firing pin Extractor Sear bar Breechblock Front toggle link Rear toggle link Locking bolt (takedown lever) Side plate (with a few exceptions through the years, see comments on side plate) Trigger Safety lever Safety bar Hold-open latch Grips (inside) Note, that the rear toggle pin was not serial-numbered until 1932. There were two "styles" of serial number marking, Commercial style and Military style. In commercial style some of the numbers, notably the side-plate and locking bolt, were stamped underneath in a way which did not affect the surface look of the gun--military serial numbers were stamped on the visible surfaces. If your mismatched parts are stamped highly visibly they likely come from military guns. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The letter under the trigger guard is probably the suffix, which is part of the serial number. I have made a suffix page you can go to at: http://users.palouse.com/ttinker/SUFFIXES.htm and you can compare your suffix to the one you see. I would guess this has been reblued by the russians, pictures would help, there is also a tutorial under the help pages that you can usually figure out how to post pictures. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

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04-12-2003, 09:36 AM	#4
JHen New User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Darien, Illinois Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To Ed Tinker and John Sabato, My thanks to you both for your prompt replies. As stated in my post, I bought the gun as a shooter but was curious because of the matching serial numbers. The seller NEVER indicated that it was all original, so I bought it with "let the buyer beware" in mind and strictly as a SHOOTER. (which by the way, is very good). I'll try to address both of your questions in the order that you presented them and try to get pics later. (I have to figure out how to do this. I do have a digital camera) Ed Tinker: 1) Serial Number: 25XX (NO other letters or markings) 2) Markings consistent with Mauser on right side of receiver (eagle 53, eagle 63 and eagle) 3) 1938 stamped on top of receiver 4) 25XX stamped on toggle 5) Crown and N 6XX stamped on underside of barrel near where it enters receiver. This information came from The Luger Handbook by Aaron Davis to help with this info. John Sabato: 1) The gun came with 2 sets of grips. Wooden which was on the gun and brown checkered plastic with Bulls-eye on each side. (The wooden grips look like they're new) 2) There is a curious mark on the front of the receiver just forward of the trigger guard. It looks like either an lower case "c" or "l" connecting to an "x". Hope this is enough of a description. Again, many thanks to the both of you for your patience with a newbie's questions. The Luger's mystique lives on.